Brown Notes
Well-Known Member
I thought BR had another identity specifically tailored for this kind of idiotic ranting. Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else.
Fire kevin o' connor !!!!
- Thread starter BluesRocker
- Start date
BluesRocker
Banned
Koc traded for the blackhole right?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Passing on Wes Matthews at a bargain?
I was about to excuse your rant until you got to that part. You think his contract is a bargain? He's a good SG but definitely not worth what POrtland is paying him. Are they going to contend for a title, even pairing him with Aldridge?
And not making the DWill trade? A PG who refuses to run the plays that are called, who has become a punk prima donna. Yes, let's definitely go through the soap opera that Denver went through last season, that NO went through with CP3. That Orlando is going through with Howard right now. Better yet, let Deron and Dwight have their own "decision" show this summer and have us get the same return on investment that Cleveland got for LeBron.
WE're rebuilding...dont you get that? Just like the process after Karl, John and Horny left. KOC's bonehead moves got the Jazz to the WC Finals. Problem is, Boozer and AK were always getting hurt, so the feeling was the Jazz could do better, legitimately contend, if/when everyone was healthy. Once KOC and the rest saw the team was flawed, they committed to "retool." KOC tried to make a move with AK. Larry H. vetoed the trade. He shopped Boozer. No one wanted Carlos and then Boozer opted back in unexpectedly.
But O'Connor didn't give up. He brought in Al to play alongside Deron. Was it a risk? Yes. But the Jazz had Millsap, Fes and Memo at the 4 and 5. No way would that win a championship. Getting Jefferson appeared to be a very good trade at the time. And the Jazz certainly played great for the first 40 games. Then the team crumbled - and Deron was a big part of that. So the team went from retool to rebuild mode. As I've said before, look at other teams that have rebuilt. LA after Magic - and after Shaq (before Stern "gave" them Gasol). Boston after Bird, Chicago after Jordan. Look at Detroit...they hung onto their "core" too long. How's Cleveland doing without LeBron? All those teams have had many, many terrible years.
KOC has not created a team where high picks sit on the bench behind old vets. Corbin is creating that situation. It takes two teams to make a trade. KOC has shopped Jefferson and Harris. So far, no takers. Personally, I don;t think either will be traded before 3/15. But better to keep them another year than to take on even worse contracst just for the sake of making a move. Jazz have some talented young players. They'll have a chance to pick up a couple more in the draft (or have that ammo to use for trades). They have a trade exception for Memo. I think KOC has done a pretty good job in rebuilding the team once and is on his way to redoing it a 2nd time. Would Utah have been better had Deron stayed and Wes re-signed at $4M? Yes, but neither was going to happen.
Patience...all the cards have yet to be played. Still have trades and picks to go. I'd rather see a team built over a few years than knee-jerk trades made. The former will get you a SA or OKC. The latter approach gets you the Clippers, Warriors and Knicks.
I was about to excuse your rant until you got to that part. You think his contract is a bargain? He's a good SG but definitely not worth what POrtland is paying him. Are they going to contend for a title, even pairing him with Aldridge?
And not making the DWill trade? A PG who refuses to run the plays that are called, who has become a punk prima donna. Yes, let's definitely go through the soap opera that Denver went through last season, that NO went through with CP3. That Orlando is going through with Howard right now. Better yet, let Deron and Dwight have their own "decision" show this summer and have us get the same return on investment that Cleveland got for LeBron.
WE're rebuilding...dont you get that? Just like the process after Karl, John and Horny left. KOC's bonehead moves got the Jazz to the WC Finals. Problem is, Boozer and AK were always getting hurt, so the feeling was the Jazz could do better, legitimately contend, if/when everyone was healthy. Once KOC and the rest saw the team was flawed, they committed to "retool." KOC tried to make a move with AK. Larry H. vetoed the trade. He shopped Boozer. No one wanted Carlos and then Boozer opted back in unexpectedly.
But O'Connor didn't give up. He brought in Al to play alongside Deron. Was it a risk? Yes. But the Jazz had Millsap, Fes and Memo at the 4 and 5. No way would that win a championship. Getting Jefferson appeared to be a very good trade at the time. And the Jazz certainly played great for the first 40 games. Then the team crumbled - and Deron was a big part of that. So the team went from retool to rebuild mode. As I've said before, look at other teams that have rebuilt. LA after Magic - and after Shaq (before Stern "gave" them Gasol). Boston after Bird, Chicago after Jordan. Look at Detroit...they hung onto their "core" too long. How's Cleveland doing without LeBron? All those teams have had many, many terrible years.
KOC has not created a team where high picks sit on the bench behind old vets. Corbin is creating that situation. It takes two teams to make a trade. KOC has shopped Jefferson and Harris. So far, no takers. Personally, I don;t think either will be traded before 3/15. But better to keep them another year than to take on even worse contracst just for the sake of making a move. Jazz have some talented young players. They'll have a chance to pick up a couple more in the draft (or have that ammo to use for trades). They have a trade exception for Memo. I think KOC has done a pretty good job in rebuilding the team once and is on his way to redoing it a 2nd time. Would Utah have been better had Deron stayed and Wes re-signed at $4M? Yes, but neither was going to happen.
Patience...all the cards have yet to be played. Still have trades and picks to go. I'd rather see a team built over a few years than knee-jerk trades made. The former will get you a SA or OKC. The latter approach gets you the Clippers, Warriors and Knicks.
kwb
Well-Known Member
There were so many other options out there at the time. I heard we could have had Dwight Howard but he decided to go with Al Jefferson instead.
chawx
Active Member
I'm with you. I think our sub-par performance in closing out games that were winnable and basically sucking for the last month is on the coaches and the vet players ...but this part is kind of on KOC. Harris is a score-first point guard, no surprise there, so why did he go get him for this team?? The contracts worked and whatnot, I understand that, and NJ was willing to make this move...so, like a previous poster said, "It takes two to tango" (or if your kinky like me 3 or 4, sometimes 5 to "tango"
)as far as trades goAlso, with Big Al, why does KOC go get him? He obviously has been a "black hole" and has no idea what it takes to be a "winner" but he gets his stats...that's for sure...why would KOC want him for his team?? Again, is it just because Minny was willing to part with him and we had the assets (Picks and some junk - ie. Kosta "Boom bitches!" Kufous) or was KOC genuinely retarded when it came to knowing really what Big Al was all about??
I, for one, would like to think that KOC new he was getting a me-first PG and a me-first PF/C and I guess he was hoping with a little molding from the coaches that these two could figure out and play less selfish and more like team players. And hey, for a time, they did that - we looked good with our softie home-schedule at first and you would have hoped the team would have gelled through that process, but we lose a few and everyone goes back into their bad habits.
BluesRocker
Banned
My whole point is that KOC is trying to blow his load too fast with this whole win now approach. We arent ready to win now. As we can all see. We would be better served to just dump some of these guys and go into the tank a few years and draft in the high lottery to help with the rebuild. Rather than drafting in the middle for the next five years. And taking the the chance we dont add anything of value to our young core.
kwb
Well-Known Member
You say this as if it's a bad thing....
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I'm with you. I think our sub-par performance in closing out games that were winnable and basically sucking for the last month is on the coaches and the vet players ...but this part is kind of on KOC. Harris is a score-first point guard, no surprise there, so why did he go get him for this team?? The contracts worked and whatnot, I understand that, and NJ was willing to make this move...so, like a previous poster said, "It takes two to tango" (or if your kinky like me 3 or 4, sometimes 5 to "tango"
Umm, salaries have to match in a trade. The price for getting Favors and the #1 picks was to take on Devin's salary in return. NJ wasn't going to hang on to Harris with a MAX PG coming their way. Their motivation for getting Deron was to attract Howard this summer. KOC did try to shop Harris. He even said, uncharacteristically, that they were attempting to put together a second deal (sending Harris to ?), but couldn't complete it before the deadline.
Like kwb said, I just don't understand why, needing a big man, KOC didn't get Dwight Howard instead of Jefferson. Certainly Orlando would have taken Koufos, a trade exception and a couple of firsts for him. Better yet, let's never take risks. No drafting white PG's from unheralded schools (at the time). No drafting raw PF's out of lesser programs, especially those who have no outside shot and can't hit their FT's. And forget about tall guys who have been backups their whole careers and are working as auto mechanics.
The ONLY way Utah will get franchise players is via the draft or taking chances on young guys who just haven't gotten a chance to show what they can do. Look at Raja in his first stint with Utah, Or Matthews, How about Lin with NY? Jazz were hoping that finally pairing Jefferson with a top PG would be what he needed to really dominate. So it didn't happen. KOC has already "replaced" Al by getting Kanter. He's already gotten a pretty solid future 2 in Burks. And hopefully Favors develops some more fire. Hayward has shown flashes; he just needs consistency. Now just pick up a SF in the draft and somehow get a PG. Then let those youngsters develop together.
kwb
Well-Known Member
Some times it's got to be about numero uno.
Shaggy
Well-Known Member
Minnesota does it the opposite way of the Jazz and they suck too. Next option.
Oh and when did Craig stop being "The Troll" ??
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Only suitable reaction to this thread...
Only suitable reaction to this thread...
Did you slip that poor chipmunk a roofie? You pervert...
JJ Rage
Active Member
Do you even know what you're complaining about anymore, or are you just ****ting out nonsense and hoping someone agrees with you? You complain about him not making enough moves, and then complain about the moves he DOES make? Your argument has no legs.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
KOC doesn't have a "Win now" approach. He got a young player and picks for Deron. Even Harris, who had to be included to make the trade work salary-wise was in his mid-20's. KOC has drafted young (Hayward, Kanter, Burks). His MAJOR FA acquisitions (Boozer, Okur) were guys who were young and under-utilized by their teams. Even Jefferson was a player who KOC felt had a lot of upside if he could be paired with a top-notch PG, which Al never had in Minnesota.
Yes, KOC uses the word "retool" instead of rebuild. Wouldn't you if it meant putting additional fans in the building and holding on to season-ticket holders? Sloan was a win-at-all-costs guy. And I fear Corbin is the same. I don't see the young guys getting sufficient PT. But I'll withhold judgment for another 16 days. If some of the vets are traded, or we at least hear rumors that trades have been discussed, then perhaps the veterans have been played more to maintain or increase their trade value. However, if Favors, Kanter and Burks are still getting 12 mins over the last 20 games, then I'll definitely join the "Fire TY" brigade.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Your solution gets KOC fired. There isn't the patience in sports for teams to take this approach. When a gm decides to rebuild he is putting his job at risk.
jazzfan1132
Well-Known Member
yep, next 16 days show the truth, but even if KOC will do nothing young bigs should play more in second part of the season, look at schedule it's two month marathon,
it's easier to take this season as a rebuilt and not retooled by the way.
it's easier to take this season as a rebuilt and not retooled by the way.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
BR is an idiot, and a bit unstable if you ask me he is the kind of guy that seeks attention where ever he can get it. Everything that spews out of his mouth is garbage. It's time to stop responding to this crap hole!