Parade .. Rain. Rain .. Parade.
Fire kevin o' connor !!!!
- Thread starter BluesRocker
- Start date
Parade .. Rain. Rain .. Parade.
BluesRocker
Banned
That's exactly why we aren't trading for Rondo Glass Eater.
Jazz just need to make a trade for some picks if possible. So we can make addition by subtraction. We need to clear up room. We aren't going to resign Paul and Al both when their contracts are up. Or maybe neither of them. So we should get something while we can. Connor needs to stop playing hard ball. He isn't in the position to. He shouldn't trade for a bag a peanuts but he shouldn't hold out for a blockbuster deal either.
Jazz just need to make a trade for some picks if possible. So we can make addition by subtraction. We need to clear up room. We aren't going to resign Paul and Al both when their contracts are up. Or maybe neither of them. So we should get something while we can. Connor needs to stop playing hard ball. He isn't in the position to. He shouldn't trade for a bag a peanuts but he shouldn't hold out for a blockbuster deal either.
BluesRocker
Banned
Great Job KOC.
You trade away Deron right when he enters the prime of his career
You trade away Deron right when he enters the prime of his career
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
OK, Blues Genius, let's hear some trade proposals. How can KOC trade Harris and/or Big Al with their $10M+ contracts and get anything of value back right now? Neither one is worth what they are making. In Jefferson's case, it was a calculated gamble that didn't work out (and an attempt to pair Deron with a dominant big man in hopes he'd stay). In Devin's case, I think KOC would admit Harris ain't worth it, but we had to take something back in order to get Favors + 2 lottery picks. I guess we could have held onto Deron and traded him to the Clippers for Gordon, Kaman, Aminu and Minny's 2012 pick (what they gave up for CP3). Personally, I prefer the package we got from NJ.
Maybe...maybe, KOC is able to deal these players when they have expiring contracts. Right now, I think the only chips we have might be CJ, Howard and perhaps Bell. Contenders may want to add veterans. Outside of that, any blockbuster including Devin or Al would probably need to also include one or more of our young 4.
AS for Deron, last season was ABSOLUTELY the right time to trade him. It would have been a circus this season and his value may have been substantially less. If you've noticed, teams have made moves to DECREASE salary levels so they can go after Howard (and Deron?). Do you think Utah would have received three lottery picks for a half-season rental of Deron? Why do you think Howard is still in Orlando? No one is willing to break the bank right now when they can just bid on him this summer. New Jersey was DESPERATE to make a splash last year because of what New York did. We sold Deron at his absolute peak price. Isn't that what people have been saying on this board...make a trade when a player has a lot of value?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Oh yeah...one more note. It was an absolute stroke of genius (and good fortune) to GIVE Okur to NJ for a trade exception. Do you think Utah could be a player in the market as teams are trying to create space to go after FA's this summer? Even WITH Jefferson and Harris, Utah will still have room to use part or all of that TPE. Certainly KOC has his faults, but I'd rank him as one of the better GM's in the league. You can bet if he were to be dismissed by Utah he'd quickly get picked up by any number of teams.
BluesRocker
Banned
Ok look GlassEater. That's a good post. I get it. Im mostly just messing around with this. I get why he made the trade for Deron. It would have been a gamble to try and keep him. Im not that mad at him for that. However, I do think that there was a chance we could have kept Deron. I think Deron liked it here. There is something to be said for him spending a good portion of time here. And having won a bunch of games here. And this being the team that drafted him. You could see it when he did that interview the night after the trade. He talked about all the good wins here. He looked shocked and sad. I felt bad for him. And before he came back here this year he had a lot of good things to say about Utah. Despite what people say about him as a person, I think he is actually a good guy. He just had a lot of fire for playing basketball. That's what made him so good. I think the media around here tried to make him look like a bad guy for the departure of Sloan. I don't believe it was his fault. Sloan was done. He could barely put together sentences when he talked. I think Deron only signed the 3 year deal just to put pressure on the managment to make the team good.. And that's where I have a problem with KOC. He should have done a better job building this team and improving it through the years. I could go over a lot of things but Ill just point out two. Memo and Boozer. After the San Antonio Series I could that they were puds and we needed to do something about it. I was screaming trades back then. Memo and Boozers contracts matched up perfectly for Garnett before he went to Boston. I bet we could have had him for those two at the time. His decision to make Memo our center was just a disastrous move. Memo didn't play any defense. It killed our defense over the years.
anyways.... I digress.. its too much to explain... In short I think he did a bad job building around Deron. When He traded him away I knew it had to be done because we were in a bad place. But I would have had no problem with him taking the chance on keeping him.
As far as what trade to make.. I suggested one. I said try to move millsap for a couple of first round picks. A late first, and a future unprotected from the Lakers. I got killed for that because people didn't think it was enough. Not enough? What the hell do people think we are going to get for him? And one guy explained that the Lakers werent interested because of the money. Which I accept. Ok trade over. But there has to be a team out there that will give up something similar for him. If not, then maybe atleast one future first round pick from a notoriously bad team. Id go for that. Get something like what we had going from New York. Even if we have to take someone back with two years of a bad contract. We have to fill our cap somehow until our rooks get their raises.
And we don't need to make too many trades. Just one big and a wing to clear up space. Addition by subtraction. We can keep Devin. We'll probably have to. Im just worried he is going to try to play this too tuff and end up not getting anything. And then we are also going to have to wait another freaking year with our rooks on the bench. good grief. I hope not.
Mission Accomplished
Well-Known Member
We lose every other game you don't have to wait to long that is what happens to a .500 team.
BluesRocker
Banned
Fire him now . Look at the mess we are in.
No playing time for our future.
No playoffs
No good draft pick.
No playing time for our future.
No playoffs
No good draft pick.
Speculation about playoffs, not fact.
The picks we have or the possible 2012 picks? We have great ones and no good picks in 2012 is speculation.
I agree on the playing time.
BluesRocker
Banned
Sure its speculation. But ill be right. Watch.
Possibly. Then again I said I would be on board the fire KOC this year if nothing gets done.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
How easy do you assume it is to trade Bell and Miles?? If we don't want them and the other teams see that they do nothing other then suck, why would they want them?
I am not asking for something substantial in return. OKC wanted Miles and Minny wanted Raja. Hell if no one wants them then waive them and bring up a D League guy.
In short do SOMETHING
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
I'll also add we need to hold onto Millsap, Al, and Harris till at least around draft time. They will fetch us a better return at that time. Its not a sure thing that we will have these picks we've been counting on it would be nice to have some good trade assets around draft time just in case we need them.
I'd like to keep Millsap period. Also I agree about trading them around draft time.
Mainly take care of Miles and Bell now.
BluesRocker
Banned
We could guarantee us a good pick if we wouldn't have made our fake run for the playoffs
sahlensguy
Well-Known Member
Then there is no point in playing them. This season has no point. Brilliant.
ITS 2012 so lets all just end ourselves early shall we? Easy on the over reactions.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Why would KOC just do something just to do it??
I think KOC enjoys his job security. Just dropping NBA caliber plyers for D-League players wouldn't lofok good on his resume. Even if KOC did do something like this to appease these fans, most of these fans will still call for KOC to be fired because the team loses even more, because they don't know what they want. As for OKC wanting Cj, that was like 3 or 4 years ago when he still had potential, and still rebuilding. That ship sailed a long time ago.
In respect to Min what are we going to get in return for Bell that we will like any better that won't take time from Burks?