Got into a pretty heated debate with my wife last night about race.

[Beer]

First, there are many studies that "white" schools get more funding than "black" schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/report-finds-23-billion-racial-funding-gap-for-schools/2019/02/25/d562b704-3915-11e9-a06c-3ec8ed509d15_story.html

Unequal Opportunity: Race and Education | Brookings

Brookings Review article by Linda Darling-Hammond (Spring 1998)

www.brookings.edu

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-02-26/white-students-get-more-k-12-funding-than-students-of-color-report

I believe money helps, but is not a "fix". The problem is, poor parents, that had poor parents that never emphasized schooling (and probably didn't have the education to help there kids with school). It is perpetual cycle, and one of the main reasons poor stay oppressed. Due to the systemic issues discussed in this thread, this has had a large impact on the black communities in this country. There is no easy fix. Additionally, many east coast schools that are "flush" with cash, waste money on too much administration. It happens everywhere, but is worse on the east coast. Utah does it, but not to the same extent as they have to be efficient with their funding. I believe Utah is ranked 49 or 50 in funds per student, but the test scores (whole other bias issue there) and graduation rates are very high, largely due to parent involvement, which again, are better educated themselves.

DC put a ****-ton of money into schools when former NBAer Kevin Johnson's wife Michelle Rhee was in charge of the DC schools, which are abysmal. The influx of money made no change.

As crazy as it sounds, we almost need to provide a welfare subsidy to poor, uneducated parents based on their kids attending and graduating. Or even better, pay them to finish school (with attendance requirements to receive pay, etc.)with better income, which means they will rely less on welfare and likely become tax payers themselves. And it may also make sense to allow alternative high schools to allow people to pursue a trade in high school, as not everyone desires to, or is built to go to college. Lets make the system work better. When I was in high school, we had an alternative place we could go for some credits where you can take autobody, auto mechanics, welding, etc. It should be part of the curriculum everywhere.

Currently just under 50% of households in the U.S. pay federal income tax. We should work to better educate/train our population. There has to be something to stop the perpetual cycle. And finding a fix will be good for all of us, and it will better educate upcoming and future generations, which will provide these families, and allow them to be net providers and not net takers.

I like this post because it actually discusses what can be done to help the problem. Turns out if you want to figure out how to help instead of just being told about stuff you already know over and over and over again you are a racist.

 

[Jazzmix]

I just stumbled across that article today which is related to the subject of this thread and I think it's a perfect example of how one can go totally overboard fighting a just cause and end up with absurd propositions to support it. It's related to my job, I am also classical musician.

To Make Orchestras More Diverse, End Blind Auditions (Published 2020)

If ensembles are to reflect the communities they serve, the audition process should take into account race, gender and other factors.

www.google.com

The author of the article claims that orchestras should abandon their practise to organise blind auditions and strive for more racial diversity among its members to "reflect better the society". I am sorry but this is idiotic. Blind audition is exactly the best example of giving fair chance to everybody without regard to their skin color. And actually classical music world has been always dominated by people of Jewish origins and nowadays there is a huge wave of talented Asians who get the jobs. Is it bad? No it's fair, both those groups are just great at it. There are actually quite many sucessful opera/choir black singers. But black and latinos mostly just don't learn to play string instruments. So they are not represented in the orchestras. Anyway the quoted article makes a statement which is like saying: there are not enough Asians in the NBA so we should scrap draft combine and make it more diverse by recruiting differently.

 

[One Brow]

The author of the article claims that orchestras should abandon their practise to organise blind auditions and strive for more racial diversity among its members to "reflect better the society". I am sorry but this is idiotic.

I agree, but for a completely different reason. Blind auditions were started to combat discrimination, particularly sex discrimination.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I just stumbled across that article today which is related to the subject of this thread and I think it's a perfect example of how one can go totally overboard fighting a just cause and end up with absurd propositions to support it. It's related to my job, I am also classical musician.

To Make Orchestras More Diverse, End Blind Auditions (Published 2020)

If ensembles are to reflect the communities they serve, the audition process should take into account race, gender and other factors.

www.google.com

The author of the article claims that orchestras should abandon their practise to organise blind auditions and strive for more racial diversity among its members to "reflect better the society". I am sorry but this is idiotic. Blind audition is exactly the best example of giving fair chance to everybody without regard to their skin color. And actually classical music world has been always dominated by people of Jewish origins and nowadays there is a huge wave of talented Asians who get the jobs. Is it bad? No it's fair, both those groups are just great at it. There are actually quite many sucessful opera/choir black singers. But black and latinos mostly just don't learn to play string instruments. So they are not represented in the orchestras. Anyway the quoted article makes a statement which is like saying: there are not enough Asians in the NBA so we should scrap draft combine and make it more diverse by recruiting differently.

To much sax and violins for me.

 

[Jazzmix]

I agree, but for a completely different reason. Blind auditions were started to combat discrimination, particularly sex discrimination.

That's what I mean. It's idiotic to abandon the practise which reflects the ideal of equal opportunity.

 

[Jazzmix]

I agree, but for a completely different reason. Blind auditions were started to combat discrimination, particularly sex discrimination.

My point being is that classical music and sport have plenty in common (aside from money, lol). I think it's just absurd to state that every sport should reflect the "racial diversity of the society". Everyone should be able to send their child to a training of a any sort but it doesn't mean every team should have a percentage of players who are black, latino, homosexual etc. Winning an audition to the orchestra in US is super difficult, it's the top, like NBA in basketball. If you want to encourage a minority who is absent in certain sport you don't start by artificially forcing its representant to the top of the competition. You invest in training centers so that children have opportunity to practice it and get to the top league in 10 years. Classical music world is very liberal in views but black people just usually don't play violin, that's why I find that article absurd.

 

[One Brow]

Classical music world is very liberal in views but black people just usually don't play violin, that's why I find that article absurd.

Oddly enough, my niece plays the violin, and has at the Kennedy center.

Orchestral music is not a competition, it's a cooperative effort, and I don't agree that the same standards apply to orchestral selection and sports team selection. I happen to think that, in the case the blind auditions, it may be more counter-productive to remove them than productive.

 

[Jazzmix]

Oddly enough, my niece plays the violin, and has at the Kennedy center.

Orchestral music is not a competition, it's a cooperative effort, and I don't agree that the same standards apply to orchestral selection and sports team selection. I happen to think that, in the case the blind auditions, it may be more counter-productive to remove them than productive.

I am an orchestral musician so believe me, I know what I am saying. It's very similar: pracitising the instrument is like training, training doesn't mean **** if you don't prove it in public performance, relation with teacher is like with coach, etc etc. Basketball is also a cooperative effort. But you need individual skills to get on the team. Now is the audition process the best way to judge your ability to play in the orchestra? Maybe not, but it's certainly guarantees equal chance. I don't know if I would have gotten a job in the orchestra in Belgium where I am a foreigner and need to be twice better than local to get a job if it wasn't for a blind audition.

 

[One Brow]

I am an orchestral musician so believe me, I know what I am saying. It's very similar: pracitising the instrument is like training, training doesn't mean **** if you don't prove it in public performance, relation with teacher is like with coach, etc etc. Basketball is also a cooperative effort.

I understand the degree of practice required. I remember my niece and sister-in-law practicing for what I recall was an hour once when they came to visit. I believe she was 3 or 4 at the time.

Last I checked, there were no opponents during the play of an orchestral piece. To me, that opens up the field for efforts in diversity that don't apply to activities where you must defeat an opponent, but I respect your position this is not true, and I don't have any skin in that game.