Guys

[b_line]

So one minute you are saying the team sucks and will never improve. The next you say they are great. Which one is it? They already committed to spending over $100mil on hayward and favors, and bought the right to draft Gobert. What are you trying to say here?

i dont disagree that the potential is there bro. not sure why people dont get this.
potential has been here for YEARS.
but in order to take the next step, mgmt has to put up or shuddup. and theyve shuddup more often than put up IMO.

 

[MT Steve]

i dont disagree that the potential is there bro. not sure why people dont get this.
potential has been here for YEARS.
but in order to take the next step, mgmt has to put up or shuddup. and theyve shuddup more often than put up IMO.

I'm arguing more than that the potential is there, "bro." I'm arguing that it's being realized right now, "bruh." And in order for THAT step to have been taken, management needed to give these players room to grow. That's what getting rid of the veterans was about. "Bro."

 

[Stifle Tower]

why does it always have to be taken to extremes? just because they spend SOME doesn't mean they spend ENOUGH.
just because they do SOME things to win, doesn't mean they do ENOUGH to win. the proof is in the lottery pudding.
"why are you so greedy, boy? we put clothes on yo back and fed you slop. now go pick dem fields."
guess we learned nothin from history.

Lol. I'm pretty sure no slave was offered $8M/per year to pick cotton (or even $1M - or whatever the inflation-adjusted equivalent would be).
And I'll bet the Jazz would have negotiated UP to a $40M/4 deal. Ergul and Kanter wanted Hayward money. Jazz didn't value him a as a max player. Though the money is much higher in the NBA, these types of decisions go on every day in the real world. If I think I'm worth $25/hr and the company I'm with only wants to offer me $15/hr at my next review, I'm free to look elsewhere. They're not slave masters and I'm not an indentured servant. They simply think they can find a decent replacement at a better price than what I'm asking. And I'm betting another company will pay me what I want.


You know what gets me EXCITED (well, besides "THAT")? Seeing a TEAM of guys who all want the same thing. I have as much love for Kanter as I did for Korver: they wanted "theirs" and didn't give a damn about the team. I felt the same about Boozer. And to a certain extent I feel that way about Trey after he's jacked up 15 shots and not looked to pass to anyone. Outside of Year #2 when Utah had Big AL (who was a great mentor, BTW), Kanter got the P/T he deserved. Jazz committed to him by letting Big Al go. He was given the starting job, then relinquished it by playing HORRIBLE defense. But he still came off the bench for almost 27 mins/per. And this season, Utah recommitted to him as a starter. And again, he was playing questionable defense. Why should Utah overpay to keep a guy like that? That's what New York, New Jersey and ****ty franchises have done for years.

 

[MT Steve]

I think what Jazz Insider is completely disregarding is that the salary cap is a thing that exists. Want to know what happens to teams that consistently pay far above the market for players?

They turn into the Brooklyn Nets and New York Knicks.

 

[Jazz Insider]

you guys keep mentioning the new york teams, but none if any jazz players were actually sent/signed there. sure dwill was traded there, but one of the main reasons he was upset here is because the jazz mgmt refused to spend enough around him. my man paul pimpslap was stolen for 2 yrs 19 mill and is flouriishin. wes matthews was a robbery too, even tho some here might think fluke injuries are funny and justify bad decisions. what the heck did they get for kanter? for big al, for pimpslap, etc. etc. again, not sure why yall hatin me for simply bringin up facts and an opinion based upon said facts. is it cuz my opinion isnt all sunshine and roses in the future? guess so. but that realization is the only thing that will spark change. not really happy with being on the treadmill of lottery/mediocrity, but i guess some here are.

 

[MT Steve]

you guys keep mentioning the new york teams, but none if any jazz players were actually sent/signed there. sure dwill was traded there, but one of the main reasons he was upset here is because the jazz mgmt refused to spend enough around him.

lol

The former Jazz players that are/aren't in New York have literally nothing to do with this conversation. And what do you mean Jazz mgmt refused to spend enough around Deron? They went into the luxury tax with him!!

What kept the Jazz from winning a championship with Deron wasn't their unwillingness to spend - ironically it was the opposite. The max contract they gave AK restricted them salary cap wise and damaged their ability to address their needs via free agency.

Anyways, at this point it's clear you're either trolling or you have a hilariously poor understanding of how the salary cap works. Several of your comments make me question whether you even know the salary cap exists. I suggest you educate yourself on that - should improve the quality of your posts dramatically.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

guess its not popular to speak what u feel is the truth round here.
just go along with the status quo and baa like sheep. u may now resume the circle jerk.
i dont see how u have blind faith in something like this, but ignorance is bliss i suppose.

You've brought nothing factual to the conversation, just bullshirt claims accusing management of not wanting to spend enough money to win. Then if people respond at the same depth, you just say they're dumb. Ok. Fun conversation, bro. You're getting what you're giving. Weak unsubstantiated posts get attack responses. That's how it goes. You want a deep conservation then you need to bring the depth.

So you think the Miller's are cheap. Cool story, bro. Not much more to say other than we'll see when the contracts get signed. Oh, and there's a salary cap to deal with. That, too.


Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[Stifle Tower]

you guys keep mentioning the new york teams, but none if any jazz players were actually sent/signed there. sure dwill was traded there, but one of the main reasons he was upset here is because the jazz mgmt refused to spend enough around him. my man paul pimpslap was stolen for 2 yrs 19 mill and is flouriishin. wes matthews was a robbery too, even tho some here might think fluke injuries are funny and justify bad decisions. what the heck did they get for kanter? for big al, for pimpslap, etc. etc. again, not sure why yall hatin me for simply bringin up facts and an opinion based upon said facts. is it cuz my opinion isnt all sunshine and roses in the future? guess so. but that realization is the only thing that will spark change. not really happy with being on the treadmill of lottery/mediocrity, but i guess some here are.

You know why we lost Matthews? Because we overspent on players and then didn't rectify our mistakes. AK was a serious overpay. And because of that decision, keeping Matthews would have put Utah into the luxury tax and cost Utah $9M the first season. Salary cap and luxury tax MATTERS to almost every owner - EVEN Mark Cuban who decided to disband his team after their championship.

OK, let's play the "keep Millsap" game. Do you think he would have agreed to a $19M deal with Utah? I don't. And he certainly did NOT want to be a backup. Simply can't afford to pay $12-$15M for all three bigs. Had Utah kept Millsap, it would have been Favors asking for a trade. Jazz thought Kanter/Favors was a better decision LONG-term than Millsap/Jefferson. AS for what they got for Kanter: they got the best deal they could find. Enes forced their hand. Really, until Gobert EXPLODED, Lindsey admitted they still wanted Kanter. And he admitted they were shopping Enes way BEFORE the trade deadline. They got the best deal they could for a player who demanded a trade and whose agent made it known they expect a max deal this summer.

As for your "treadmill of lottery/mediocrity" we've been out of playoff contention for TWO years. I'd hardly call that mediocrity. ALL teams eventually have to rebuild. Only San Antonio has been the real constant since getting Duncan. Best run franchise in pro sports, IMO. Best organization at evaluating young talent and letting borderline older veterans go.

Jazz rebuilt quickly after Stockton and Malone left. Only 1 losing season, then reached the conference title game in a few years, made the playoffs several years in a row. I'll admit the Big Al era was not as successful as we had hoped. And Utah loses their star player AND HOF coach in the same season? That is going to DEVASTATE any NBA team. But Utah regrouped and made the playoffs the following year and were on contention the next season.

So crossroads time: keep signing vets and competing for the playoffs, or jettison the vets and do a complete rebuild. I would hardly call what Utah is now doing "being on the treadmill of lottery/mediocrity." ONE SEASON of being really bad - with a PURPOSELY weak bench - to get a TOP pick in what was regarded (at least pre-season) as being the strongest draft in recent history. We got Exum. He's raw, but I think we see the potential. I'd say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. And this season...yes, we'll be in the lottery again. Oh crap, this season is a disaster. Let's all run around saying the sky is falling.

Tell you what...do you promise to just go away if the Jazz don't make the playoffs next year? Or are you going to praise the front office for making great decisions, keeping the franchise fiscally sound - and in position to re-sign our key players - hiring a great coach and letting our players develop, or will you say we fell short IF we don't win the title? Care to look up the Jazz' records in the years prior to Malone and Stockton? This is eerily similar. Jazz are poised with this current group to be in the playoffs for the next decade - and hopefully be true contenders for several of those seasons.

 

[Deleted member 848]

HeavenHarris, bro.


Mark Cuban would give up his left ******** to trade rosters from Dallas to the Jazz right now.

Dallas is easily the biggest dumpster-fire in the WCF. Parsons is meh, Dirk is done, Chandler is running on fumes, Rondo is a goner/sucks. Ellis is all yall got going for ya. No bench either-- Crowder & Wright were your two best pieces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jazz Insider]

Stifle-- the jazz could have kept big al and others if they simply wanted to make the playoffs, no?
i thought the purpose of this entire thing was to not just make the playoffs, but to win a championship.
is that correct?

appreciate u being one of the few to actually admit to the facts, even tho we may disagree with the justifcation/reasons why they came to be. at least u admit em instead of denying. respect for that, sir.

 

[Jazz Insider]

HeavenHarris, bro.


Mark Cuban would give up his left ******** to trade rosters from Dallas to the Jazz right now.

Dallas is easily the biggest dumpster-fire in the WCF. Parsons is meh, Dirk is done, Chandler is running on fumes, Rondo is a goner/sucks. Ellis is all yall got going for ya. No bench either-- Crowder & Wright were your two best pieces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mark cuban? that dude couldnt run a dairy queen bro. and for that reason, he's out.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Stifle-- the jazz could have kept big al and others if they simply wanted to make the playoffs, no?
i thought the purpose of this entire thing was to not just make the playoffs, but to win a championship.
is that correct?

appreciate u being one of the few to actually admit to the facts, even tho we may disagree with the justifcation/reasons why they came to be. at least u admit em instead of denying. respect for that, sir.

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a team that may contend for a championship (or playoff elite at least). The ONLY way to do that is what Miami did: clear the roster entirely and get three superstars to sign with the team. Do you think Utah could EVER do that?

Neither do I. So the only other viable option is to draft well, let your young players develop and add FA's as you can to fill holes. SA was built that way, as was OKC, GS and Atlanta. Memphis as well. Grizzlies plateaued and tore down their squad by trading Pau and ridding themselves of other veterans. They got a young Marc Gasol, then added Randolph. OKC was almost entirely built through the draft. GS' stars were all draft picks, to which they added some decent vets. Atlanta was more off a mix, as was the LA Clippers. The point is...all those teams went through multiple losing seasons as they rebuilt.

The exceptions being Miami (one terrible season followed by signing the Big3) and SA...injuries devastating a team that had 59 wins the previous season...and lucking out into one of the all-time greats in Duncan with their #1 pick.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Utah Jazz (prior to last season):

In 30 years, only TWO losing seasons:
2004-05: 26-56 in a season marked by significant injuries.
2010-11: 39-43 the year Sloan quit and Deron was suddenly traded. Well above .500 before those two events.

Underwent two significant rebuilds:
1. Post Stockton/Malone
2. Post Deron, AK, Boozer and Memo

We're now in rebuild #3.
1. One year of real losing
2. Very close to .500 this year.

I'd say we're in great shape!
And kudos to Dennis Lindsey and the Millers.

Looking ahead: yes, we have cap space. But it's not all usable. Have to assume our frontcourt, one of the best and youngest in the league even now, will command almost $60M. Add in Exum and either Burks or another starting SG. That's pretty close to the new projected cap already (when it jumps in 2016). Then we have the space between the cap and tax threshold to sign a few reasonably priced players (or keep our own). Rest of the roster will be filled with minimum salary players and our plethora of draft picks. And we're going to NEED to have great value from some of those players on rookie contracts.

 

[fishonjazz]

The thing is, it's been more than 15 games.

The Jazz have gone 23-17 over their last 40 games. 5th in defensive rating in the entire NBA during that stretch. That's a 46-48 win pace for the youngest team in the NBA with 4 rookies in their 9 man rotation. It's pretty significant.

Boom bitches

 

[fishonjazz]

but in order to take the next step, mgmt has to be patient with the rebuild and wait for players to develop like they did with favors and Hayward, along with waiting for thier rookie head coach to develop and implement his system

Fixed

 

[fishonjazz]

mark cuban? that dude couldnt run a dairy queen bro. and for that reason, he's out.

Did Dallas win a title recently?

 

[Jazz Insider]

Utah Jazz (prior to last season):

In 30 years, only TWO losing seasons:
2004-05: 26-56 in a season marked by significant injuries.
2010-11: 39-43 the year Sloan quit and Deron was suddenly traded. Well above .500 before those two events.

Underwent two significant rebuilds:
1. Post Stockton/Malone
2. Post Deron, AK, Boozer and Memo

We're now in rebuild #3.
1. One year of real losing
2. Very close to .500 this year.

I'd say we're in great shape!
And kudos to Dennis Lindsey and the Millers.

Looking ahead: yes, we have cap space. But it's not all usable. Have to assume our frontcourt, one of the best and youngest in the league even now, will command almost $60M. Add in Exum and either Burks or another starting SG. That's pretty close to the new projected cap already (when it jumps in 2016). Then we have the space between the cap and tax threshold to sign a few reasonably priced players (or keep our own). Rest of the roster will be filled with minimum salary players and our plethora of draft picks. And we're going to NEED to have great value from some of those players on rookie contracts.

interesting. i appreciate a legit response. ur logic seems sound. so sound, im reconsidering my position. respec.

howevs, when i take he logic and try to apply it to the facts of reality, im not sure how well it holds up.
the 2nd rebuild you mention, post deron, seems to be ridiculously short and with little reward.
how are you so sure the 3rd rebuild, as you refer to it, wont be something similar?
this is why i say 'perpetual rebuild.' im not convinced, and id like to know why u and others are.
i wanna feel safe too bros. but i feel like gobert, favors, hay, etc. are only rentals.

 

[Jazz Insider]

Did Dallas win a title recently?

not sure how this applies to anything in this thread.
but i believe, yes, they have. relatively speakin.

 

[TheStormofWar]

At this point, it's just a matter of time. We have "our" players at all their positions who will play for "their" coach.. We're just waiting for Burks to get better and for Exum to gain a handle on his ability. Once the Kancer was traded, they started running over everyone. I don't believe this to just be a coincidence.

Folks, keep your hands, arms, feet, and legs inside the vehicle and enjoy the ride...

 

[Stoked]

interesting. i appreciate a legit response. ur logic seems sound. so sound, im reconsidering my position. respec.

howevs, when i take he logic and try to apply it to the facts of reality, im not sure how well it holds up.
the 2nd rebuild you mention, post deron, seems to be ridiculously short and with little reward.
how are you so sure the 3rd rebuild, as you refer to it, wont be something similar?
this is why i say 'perpetual rebuild.' im not convinced, and id like to know why u and others are.
i wanna feel safe too bros. but i feel like gobert, favors, hay, etc. are only rentals.

If you consider Favors a "rental", after all he has said and done, then there is nothing anyone can say or do that will make you think otherwise.

Pointless discussion at this point imo.

Personally I am extremely high on this team. I think the new trend we are seeing is the strongest thing the Jazz have going for them in keeping players like Hayward and Gobert. If they start winning and are pushing for championships by the time those contracts are up then I can see all of them wanting to renew with the Jazz.