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Hayward & Jazz - not close to agreement (Hayward leaving 4/40 on the table)

I agree. Does Gordon really want to get 2-3M more next year from another team that he doesn't deserve? Because that is what the market will pay because that is what teams have to do to get RFA's away from other teams. Its not that the players deserve the extra 2-3M per year, its that that is what you have to do to ensure that the other team doesn't match. Players that take this route to get paid money they don't deserve... deserve to get whats coming to them. Usually this ends up being bad for the player and the team that takes them away.
 
I'm sure Gordon would hate to get 2-3M more from a team that he doesn't "deserve".

I would take more money too. It's the smart decision.
 
As of now I feel 10 is a fair deal, but we aren't paying him for now just like we aren't paying Favors for what he is now. In my opinion we are paying him for what he'll be in a year or two. And that could be just below the max. 12 could end up being a bargain price, just a little surprised some don't think he'll get any better, and if we happen to get a franchise player in this draft, that would go a long way to make Hayward that much more affective as a lot of pressure would be taken off especially if that star is a wing like Parker or Wiggins. If the jazz didn't have to count on him for scoring. He could be our Scottie Pippen to his Jordan. A guy who Scores 15-18 points a game with 5 boards and 7 assists, with the accasional big game, which would make Parker or Wiggins job a whole lot easier.
 
A couple of things:

1- if he was worth 12-13, we would have made the playoffs last year.

2 - our offense didn't suck last year. Our defense did. Hayward lost Al, Paul and Mo. He will be our best offensive option and teams know this. His %'s are going to fall hard.

3 - Burke is the pg and a shoot first pg. We have already seen that Kanter releases to run the floor. Option#1 will be Burke/Kanter running the floor. Option #2 will be the post. That makes Hayward, at best, option #3. Also, we know that Favors, Kanter and Burke aren't afraid to shoot and probably don't feel pressure to defer to Hayward.

4 - This deal will go to the last day and then Hayward will sign a 4/36 or 4/40 with incentives up to 12 per. Not a big deal.
 
heyhey said:
Hayward has been the top performing guy of the young core. The Jazz sell more Hayward jerseys than any other player(I think I read that). The jazz just signed favors for 9 million more and have money to spend. Hayward while maybe not worth more than 10 on the open market is worth more than 10 to a small market team that is rebuilding, especially when he is the current face of the franchise. Hayward was right to turn down 10.
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That's exactly the kind of thinking that got us stuck with AK's contract and mediocrity for years to come. There's only so much cap space available. If you tie up nearly half of that with 2 players, those 2 players better be your two best players long-term, not right now when we stink.
 
heyhey said:
It would be if we were already in a position to actually do something. Right now is different. The jazz won't have to worry about a contract for our franchise player(probably through the draft) for 5 years. Furthermore Hayward @ the 2 if we were to draft a 3 would make the extra couple mill/yr worth it. I think 10 is the lowest he could expect in rfa so why would he take it? You can't expect a player to sign an extension when you offer him the bottom of his pay scale. Hayward has much more to gain than lose in rfa with this offer on the table.
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That is a good point, and I did make a similar point somewhere else, but it's important not to tie up too much $ when we will need it. The Jazz need to decide when they think they'll need to start spending money on free agents. Next, like u said below your above post, maybe give Hayward a heavily front-loaded contract starting next season and the next. Finally, on the last 2 years (I think 5 total is only for max players now, right?), his contract won't be so bad.

However, the other problem with that thinking is what will Hayward expect on his following contract? In 4 years, we could have a team full of All-Stars. Who knows, right? If we start lower now then his next extension will also be lower. The total salary, down the road, is what we need to be worrying about and not just these next few years. If the Jazz can show Hayward their long-term vision, then he might be more willing to sacrifice for that vision.

Best solution?

If Hayward wants a nice contract, maybe make it look good on paper but also protect the Jazz with incentives that also have to be met to get that payday. For example, if Hayward doesn't reach All-Star status by a certain point then he loses a % of his contract overall, spread out over all 4 years. If he doesn't have a certain efficiency rating by a certain time, then they can dock the contract as well, or just not pay him that incentive. I would suggest having a second deal in place for the following extension, but that's what got the TWolves and Joe Smith in trouble for many years.

The main problem is that the Jazz don't have a Tim Duncan-like leader or a Wade-type leader that can convince other guys to take less and stay with the team because they have a good thing going. We're not anywhere near that yet. Even if we get Wiggins or Parker next year, there's no telling how much time they would need to become that kind of leader.

Reality?

I'm guessing the two sides could settle on $10.5 million a year with incentives. I'd still front-load the contract so the last 2-3 years are like Millsap's, closer to 7 or 8 million.
 
Hantlers said:
I'm sure Gordon would hate to get 2-3M more from a team that he doesn't "deserve".

I would take more money too. It's the smart decision.
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More money doesn't automatically equal "smart decision". There are so many more factors that can affect someone's lifetime than money. Surroundings and people you're surrounded with affect you so much more than your income.

In reality, his income actually limits his options because celebrities with that kind of money are usually hounded a lot more because people tend to ask for their money a lot more.

At least in Utah, people are much more respectful of players' space and usually treat celebrities as regular people with interesting jobs (in my experience).

Bigger cities have more media and more paparazzi. I wouldn't curse that on anyone.
 
@DJJazzyJody: Jazz GM Dennis Lindsey said Derrick Favors' agent's first question wasn't about money. It was: "Can you keep the young core together?"

@TNewm2215: "The first question Wallace (Derrick's agent) asked me wasn't how much money can we get, it was can you keep this young core together."

@Lockedonsports: Amazing to see Derrick Favors here and realize he is only 15 days older than Karl Malone when he debuted for Jazz

@DJJazzyJody: Dennis Lindsey: "We look forward to keeping the core together."
 
Lattimer said:
@DJJazzyJody: Jazz GM Dennis Lindsey said Derrick Favors' agent's first question wasn't about money. It was: "Can you keep the young core together?"

@TNewm2215: "The first question Wallace (Derrick's agent) asked me wasn't how much money can we get, it was can you keep this young core together."

@Lockedonsports: Amazing to see Derrick Favors here and realize he is only 15 days older than Karl Malone when he debuted for Jazz

@DJJazzyJody: Dennis Lindsey: "We look forward to keeping the core together."
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Favors just went up a couple notches in my book.
 
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