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Hot Take Post #247 1/2

campaignist said:
I might be overrating it, for sure. My thinking is-how do we beat Houston, the LA teams, and Denver? I mean, i'd love to hear how people think we do it.
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Adding Bojan straight up without pulling the Conley trade would've done the trick. We were limiting Hou's offense quite well in G3-G5 of last year's first round seres. We just couldn't hit those wide open threes. Having Bojan could help with that 100%. But now having given up Rubio, Crowder and Favs, we no longer have the ability to deal with Hou's offense(forget about Jamal Murray or Dennis Schoreder, we let Eric frickin Gordon drop 50 on us), and we surely aren't gonna beat Hou with our offense.
 
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Catchall said:
dailyknicks.com

Knicks Rumors: Trading Julius Randle ‘number one priority’ this offseason

Julius Randle could be on the move this offseason.
dailyknicks.com dailyknicks.com
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Conley for Randle is a gamble, but what do we have to lose? The money saved by switching Conley for Randle is massive.

We could comfortably re-sign Clarkson, use the MLE, use the RE and use the BAE while staying under the luxury.

I've always thought Randle is a weapon despite his lack of discipline. However, many people thought Clarkson would be a terrible fit, and Randle might end up being the spark we need in a offensively versatile big man.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
One Brow said:
So we're getting rid of Conley for a back-up PF who can play C a little bit? Doesn't sound like a good trade.
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Many would argue that Conley should come off the bench so really they both would be off the bench.

Bojan can play some SF so Randle could actually play PF and C for quite a bit of minutes.

Conley makes $34.5 next year while Randle makes $18.9. Thats a massive amount of savings.

I would make the trade one of the following:

Conley and #23 for Randle and Ntilikina

OR

Conley and #23 for Randle, #38 and a 2021 2nd rounder

NY has 2nd rounders for Charlotte and Detroit in 2021

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
we need a "dirty" player. Players on this team are simply too scared to get their hands dirty. Setting hard picks, boxing out for rebound, fighting through screens, and sacrifize their body. It's a genuine concern for guys like Bojan who wouldn't even dive in for a loose ball.
 
jom2003 said:
we need a "dirty" player. Players on this team are simply too scared to get their hands dirty. Setting hard picks, boxing out for rebound, fighting through screens, and sacrifize their body. It's a genuine concern for guys like Bojan who wouldn't even dive in for a loose ball.
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I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Grayson.

You can't be tripping players in the NBA, but I think he would have matured and did the things you mentioned.

Thought he did a good job playing the point as well.
 
LoPo said:
Conley for Randle is a gamble, but what do we have to lose? The money saved by switching Conley for Randle is massive.

We could comfortably re-sign Clarkson, use the MLE, use the RE and use the BAE while staying under the luxury.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
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The room exception is the MLE. It’s just the amount you get if you are under the cap. They aren’t separate exceptions. This offseason, the Jazz get a full MLE.

Accordingly, I don’t think the savings you’re imagining are nearly as significant as you think, since they can already work out re-signing JC, using the MLE, and the BAE. In neither scenario do they actually have cap space to use, so you really don’t gain any actual spending capital.

Also, Conley is really ****ing good, and I would much prefer to have him over Randle. Plus then The Jazz have his bird rights going into the ‘21 offseason so it’s possible to re-sign him to a final contract to stick around as the backup pg after next year.
 
Conley is a near perfect fit offensively. Yeah, the lack of size is a negative, but I don't think it makes him a bad fit.
 
radiohegel said:
The room exception is the MLE. It’s just the amount you get if you are under the cap. They aren’t separate exceptions. This offseason, the Jazz get a full MLE.

Accordingly, I don’t think the savings you’re imagining are nearly as significant as you think, since they can already work out re-signing JC, using the MLE, and the BAE. In neither scenario do they actually have cap space to use, so you really don’t gain any actual spending capital.

Also, Conley is really ****ing good, and I would much prefer to have him over Randle. Plus then The Jazz have his bird rights going into the ‘21 offseason so it’s possible to re-sign him to a final contract to stick around as the backup pg after next year.
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Thank you for clearing up the MLE for me. So we get the full MLE if we stay over the cap and resort to the Room if we somehow fall under it.

I don't think your math adds up. If we keep everybody who is signed, there is no way we can re-sign Clarkson (estimated $10+), use the MLE ($9.6), sign #23 ($2.3), and use the BAE ($3.6) while staying under the luxury limit.
Utah Jazz Salaries (https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/UTA.html):
TOTAL with options: 12 Players at $117.87
TOTAL without options: 8 players at $11+
Luxury Limit will be around $132 million

I guess you could make an argument that we could go over the luxury this year, but why? Gate revenue is going to be so much less because we won't be at full capacity. Who knows what happens with TV deals. Many fans are turned off by the BLM and other messages so what does that loss look like?

I could make the argument that Jazz ownership looks at this deal and jumps for it. Randle makes $15.6 less than Conley. That is a massive amount of money. The Jazz could pay Randle, re-sign Clarkson, and use the BAE for what Conley is set to make next season.

I understand that Conley is good, but does he fit? The numbers really don't say that. His play, good or bad, didn't really lead to more wins. Mitchell and Conley both need the ball to find their spaces and create success. Neither are great defenders at this point so having both on the floor a lot hurts us.

Conley for Randle makes a ton of sense for us.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Conley is a near perfect fit offensively. Yeah, the lack of size is a negative, but I don't think it makes him a bad fit.
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Defensively, Conley is a horrendous fit. He couldn't guard anybody good on the Nuggets. In order to survive in Game 7, Don had to play offense and defense at a superstar level in the 3rd quarter.

In the 4th quarter, if Conley was such a near perfect fit, he wouldn't have failed as much as he did in the last 6 minutes when he dominated the ball. He created hardly any open looks in that time. Don was exhausted from carrying such a load in the 3rd quarter because Conley couldn't do much on either end. Even then, I think Don would have created more than Conley ended up creating in that last 6 minutes.
 
Cptgrnlngs22 said:
This would not be a bad trade considering the options it would give us this offseason. I would start randle though

Mitchell
O’Neal
Bogie
Randle
Gobert

Clarkson
Joe
Favors
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That puts 3 people not shooting the 3 alongside the guy we want driving to the basket. We went through that already.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Complete opposite. Randle is a horrendous fit
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I just don't see that at all.

Randle hasn't been on a good team yet. He's been relied on to go out and do everything on bad teams. He hasn't had the structure that our system and talent would provide. He isn't a shooter, but he is a 30% career 3pt shooter. Would he shoot better with the wide open looks our offense provides?

Just compare Bojan to Randle at PF this year.
Assists Per Game - Randle averaged 3.1 to Bojan's 2.1
Rebounds Per Game - Randle averaged 9.5 to Bojan's 4.1
Blocks and Steals - Randle had more per game
Points Per Game - Randle averaged 19.5 to Bojan's 20.2

Randle would be an alternative to Bojan; having both would give us more options and depth. And he's a small ball center option behind Rudy. He doesn't have to start, but I think he could if we wanted him to.
 
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LoPo said:
I just don't see that at all.

Randle hasn't been on a good team yet. He's been relied on to go out and do everything on bad teams. He hasn't had the structure that our system and talent would provide. He isn't a shooter, but he is a 30% career 3pt shooter. Would he shoot better with the wide open looks our offense provides?

Just compare Bojan to Randle at PF this year.
Assists Per Game - Randle averaged 3.1 to Bojan's 2.1
Rebounds Per Game - Randle averaged 9.5 to Bojan's 4.1
Blocks and Steals - Randle had more per game
Points Per Game - Randle averaged 19.5 to Bojan's 20.2

Randle would be an alternative to Bojan; having both would give us more options and depth. And he's a small ball center option behind Rudy. He doesn't have to start, but I think he could if we wanted him to.
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Do you know how Utah plays? Like honestly, have you ever watched Randle?

He's a ball-stopper who doesnt play D or shoot well. He's a terrible fit.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Do you know how Utah plays? Like honestly, have you ever watched Randle?

He's a ball-stopper who doesnt play D or shoot well. He's a terrible fit.
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That's almost exactly what they said about Jordan Clarkson.

That's the thing about players on bad teams....

Brandon Ingram wasn't considered anything special in LA. With NOLA, he's an All Star.

Clarkson was a chucker for LA and Cleveland, but he's very valuable in our system.

Julius Randle was out of sorts in LA and the catalyst for a terrible NY team. Maybe he's the next guy who just needs a good fit to emerge.
 
LoPo said:
That's almost exactly what they said about Jordan Clarkson.

That's the thing about players on bad teams....

Brandon Ingram wasn't considered anything special in LA. With NOLA, he's an All Star.

Clarkson was a chucker for LA and Cleveland, but he's very valuable in our system.

Julius Randle was out of sorts in LA and the catalyst for a terrible NY team. Maybe he's the next guy who just needs a good fit to emerge.
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Yeah, Jordan Clarkson mostly sucks but he filled a big scoring need with Bojan injured and our bench being trash. We dont need anything Randle brings. He's just a stats player, so I get why casuals think hes good. Maybe he does just need a good fit, but Utah isnt it. He would be terrible in our system and look completely lost unless Utah changed everything up just for him (and he isnt good enough to do so).

If New York is the team giving up a pick to get off Randle's contract, then sure, I'd think about a Conley/Randle+Filler swap, but that isnt going to be the case (I would assume). I'd also immediately look to flip Randle elsewhere before he played a minute with Utah.
 
Clarkson can shoot though so does have some off ball value. Plus he creates efficiently. He sucks on defense but doesn't play as important a role on defense as a big would. He's also bought into the role of the bench.

Some of the stuff Randle does is cute but not sure how effective it is. I think the biggest thing I like is his offensive rebounding and being able to bully smaller guys in the post... not something you pay $17M for. If his 3p shot had continued to trend the right way maybe he could be the effective point forward and it would be okay.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Clarkson can shoot though so does have some off ball value. Plus he creates efficiently. He sucks on defense but doesn't play as important a role on defense as a big would. He's also bought into the role of the bench.

Some of the stuff Randle does is cute but not sure how effective it is. I think the biggest thing I like is his offensive rebounding and being able to bully smaller guys in the post... not something you pay $17M for. If his 3p shot had continued to trend the right way maybe he could be the effective point forward and it would be okay.
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I think Clarkson is/was a band-aid solution. I hope to god we can sign him to a good deal and flip him for value down the line. I just don't trust his decision making and his defense is bad.

Randle could be a good/great player if he committed to D and/or he plays next to a stretch 5 who can rim protect . but that isnt Utah.

Randle would have been a very good offensive player to have in Sloan's system.
 
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