I'm good with that.
There will be some shifting, of course, as it's very early.
I'm keeping a close eye on (to name a few);
- Exum
- WCS
- Joel Embiid (could become an Ibaka)
- Isaiah Austin
- TJ Warren
- Poythress
- Kasey Hill
Its Not About Tanking
- Thread starter gomretat
- Start date
I'm good with that.
There will be some shifting, of course, as it's very early.
I'm keeping a close eye on (to name a few);
- Exum
- WCS
- Joel Embiid (could become an Ibaka)
- Isaiah Austin
- TJ Warren
- Poythress
- Kasey Hill
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
The roster as is would keep up with a few teams. Jazz won't be the worst or second worst...so we can forget about Wiggins or Parker - unless a ping pong ball falls our way. But I think Utah COULD be in the 5-8 range. That's where 25-28 wins would place the Jazz. And that WOULD net Utah a franchise player. The OP cites our exiting lottery picks. Yes, we do have high picks at 5 positions. But none are all-star caliber. We're HOPING they develop. Now is not the time to go out and spend on veterans who would take time and staring slots away from those players. I, for one, am going to be extremely happy if all our young guys show promise, but we end up losing most games.
Would you guys give up our '14 for Harrison Barnes?
We can start "winning" straight away without waiting around for the draft.
We can start "winning" straight away without waiting around for the draft.
fishonjazz
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Good question..... I probably would not do that trade, but damn thats a tough choice IMO
I'd do it. We're never gonna be bad enough to be top #5. If we're picking around #7, which is Glen Robinson III. I'd argue he's has similar talent/upside to Barnes.
You also save yourself 1 whole year of 'tanking' and uncertainty.
This.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
That's probably the best of your suggestions. I'd consider it if we could put top-7 protection on the pick.
Pretty much how I feel.. I would put Barnes around 8'ish in '14..... so I'd do the trade top 5 protected with no protection the following year.
What I am looking for is the Jazz to railroad teams at the deadline for an additional pick or two.
So let's say that Utah has the 11th pick and lands via trade the 17th and 22nd. What do you feel combining all 3 would get us in 2014? Do we trade all three or keep them?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
That's what I'm hoping. It won't get us into the top-5, but even if the Jazz could jump into the 7-9 range, they could pick up a player with all-star potential. Worst case, even staying at #11 and #17 would result in some pretty good talent.
All three picks and say maybe Burks? Carroll?
We don't need that much more youth but I don't think we could move up enough to make it worthwhile to let go of the assets. We need to either get into top 5 or keep them. I think there are starters throughout the whole first round but the franchise players are 4 to 5.
I'd give up all of the next two draft picks plus Burks to get Wiggins or Parker.
I'd give up this year's plus Burks for Andrew Harrison or Julius Randle.
Otherwise I may just stay put.
I don't understand this evaluation of players to their draft pick. I think you should evaluate them on production, intangibles and salary. And truth is both #3s have shown glimpses of brilliance but not yet that they can carry a franchise. So I look at the players in this league who are clear cut franchise player, worth building around:
LeBron
Durant
Howard
Kyrie
CP3
Melo
Rose(could have as well put him into the injury category, but I'm a homer and think he's young and committed enough to not make his RETURN look silly)
Harden(though he's extremely borderline with only 1 really good season. But considering who played around him and how efficient he was in OKC he gained my trust)
Questionable due to age/injury, that I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt:
Kobe
Dirk
Duncan
Wade(Even though I don't think given his age and knee problems that too many franchises would risk building around him now)
Player that others are extremely high on which I am not (yet) sold
George(yeah, that was a talented team and breakout season, can he reproduce that?We'll see)
Curry(Not sure, but tbh I don't watch too much GSW)
Deron(If he was real deal, no way his team would have lost to these injury plagued Bulls)
Westbrook(Don't like his decision making. I think w/o Durant he would look worse)
Wall(Yeah I know he's not in consideration now, but if the Lizards return to the playoffs and turn into Wizards again, he will enter the discussion again)
Player, who I feel are underrated and might as well be included as franchise cornerstones:
Parker(beast, clutch, efficient, silent assasin)
Love(though I have to agree the injury and lack of playoff runs are a major concern, but I'm confident he'll reenter that elite status)
I know some of you have other players in mind. But thinking about all the likes of Smith, Lopez, Holiday, Rondo, M.Gasol, Z-Bo, Gay, Aldridge, Lawson and the guys, I don't think they are player worth building a franchise around, who are worth more than between 2 and 4 borderline Allstars because they attract other big names or win no matter who they playing with.
That's 19 player on my list. Not even 1/franchise. If you consider an avg starplayer career doesn't take longer than 15 seasons, 10-12 of those are contention productions, it's extremely valuable to position yourself properly in a draft like next year, where there's 3 surefire franchise player, a couple more questionable franchise talents and maybe even some sleeper. When in a normal draft you have 1 franchise player, thus a 25% chance to turn it around as worst record team, this time if you sport a bad record, you have way improved odds. And putting all the money on this core + OJ Mayo or someone could wreck the salary for years to come for a team that potentially doesn't get out of the 1st round. Look at Denver, how much talent they have that's good, but not very good. They have long time money committed. Hard for them to get out of that affair in case next playoffs will be a similar disappointment. And Utah could become that Denver depending on how these player develop.
It totally should. What if Kanter doesn't like playing time as much as pool partys? What if Favors on his desired PF position is not as effective in today's NBA as most PFs can drag you away from the basket and hurt your ability to use athleticism there? Hayward, Burk² are huge question marks too. Let them play a reasonable amount(30 min+) so they develop and let the Bench lose the games. They need playing time, not winning. It can be even valuable that they learn how important a deep rotation is. Then they may be willing to go 1 million below market value in order to have a deeper team.
If the player develop the desired way, you eventually have another huge asset, and have the flexibility to ship one guy long term. Otherwise if they suck you have this huge chance to turn it finally around in next years draft. Each lottery ticket is worth at least 3 times a usual draftticket.
And in the unlikely case that Kanter or someone turns out to be reincarnation of Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq combined you reach the playoffs anyways and have the cap space to take money off the loaded teams midseason which decide they rebuild cuss the Jazz owned them too hard in reg season.
Thus it makes no sense at all to add major salary this summer and hurt your flexibility long term. Simple Win-Win situation. If the management is smart they won't care about the sales. There will be enough interested in how the young guys develop. And losing 5k spectators this season is the same like losing 1k each over the next 5 seasons, because the Jazz barely reach the playoffs and are salary cap-handcuffed.
Who... wouldn't. Apparently The Pelicans, but they're the exception.
That being said, it isn't about tanking, but evaluating what our young group can do. What we CAN be capable of.
Tanking is just a byproduct that's likely to exist.
gomretat
Well-Known Member
It is obviously not a win now philosophy or we would be going after different names in FA. But it is not about tanking either. If you think 2 of our young guys will be max players, you have to build with that in mind. And you have to figure that at least one of the other young guys is a 8-10 mil a year guy. That is what the Jazz are doing. It may well put us in the lottery but very different than sending a message to these young players that we don't care about winning with them getting more PT.