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Jalen Rose, Pail Pierce, Jay Williams comment on Donovan

oneye

oneye

Well-Known Member
2018 Award Winner


Thoughts on this? (Obviously I think it’s dumb as hell, they’re being ridiculous on Donovan as a 23 year old/3rd year player) but how do you take Jalens comments at the 3 minute mark? It’s so strange to me this conversation is even a conversation right now. It shouldn’t be.
 
It all comes down to winning. I think that the whole big market for exposure is now a fallacy. With digital media and advanced technology, you can be a superstar while being in a small market. Look at LeBron in Cleveland. Don seems to have high character and be a good dude so I believe that he will be loyal. However, he is also very competitive and wants to win. Currently, he doesn't have too much help.
 
PattBattMann said:
It all comes down to winning. I think that the whole big market for exposure is now a fallacy. With digital media and advanced technology, you can be a superstar while being in a small market. Look at LeBron in Cleveland. Don seems to have high character and be a good dude so I believe that he will be loyal. However, he is also very competitive and wants to win. Currently, he doesn't have too much help.
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This is a bad take. Lebron has good character. He may be be whiny but he has good character...but he left Cleveland, and Miami, and Cleveland again. These guys have a 10-20 year career. That’s it. They want to be happy, feel fulfilled, reach their potential...like any of us. If Donovan leaves, I’ll say **** him. But I can’t blame him. It’s his life.
 
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I think guys want money, winning, and loyalty in that order.

- Money is #1 - Money can be had through success on and off the court. Marketing, exposure, etc. plays into that. Which leads to....

- Winning is #2 - if you're winning, you get exposure regardless of where you are these days. Marketing can also come with that. So in many ways, money is first and winning second but they are also hand in hand.

- Loyalty is a two way street. They want to show it because they know it plays better in the public eye, but they also want the city/franchise to show it through contracts, roster moves, etc. You don't see many guys looking to leave during or right after their rookie contract. Almost everybody stays into their 2nd contract a bit before hinting at leaving.

I don't see why Donovan moves any time soon. I don't think there is a player we could trade away or not re-sign that makes him mad minus maybe Royce. We really have to fall flat on our faces for him to start thinking of leaving.
 
LoPo said:
I think guys want money, winning, and loyalty in that order.

- Money is #1 - Money can be had through success on and off the court. Marketing, exposure, etc. plays into that. Which leads to....

- Winning is #2 - if you're winning, you get exposure regardless of where you are these days. Marketing can also come with that. So in many ways, money is first and winning second but they are also hand in hand.

- Loyalty is a two way street. They want to show it because they know it plays better in the public eye, but they also want the city/franchise to show it through contracts, roster moves, etc. You don't see many guys looking to leave during or right after their rookie contract. Almost everybody stays into their 2nd contract a bit before hinting at leaving.

I don't see why Donovan moves any time soon. I don't think there is a player we could trade away or not re-sign that makes him mad minus maybe Royce. We really have to fall flat on our faces for him to start thinking of leaving.
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Every player is different and that changes throughout their careers.

Mitchell will sign his extension here. After that, who knows. But that a few years away from caring about. A million things could change between now and then.
 
I trust Rudy sticking around more than I trust Mitchell sticking around. If Mitchell doesn't sign an extension after offered one, trade him.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Every player is different and that changes throughout their careers.

Mitchell will sign his extension here. After that, who knows. But that a few years away from caring about. A million things could change between now and then.
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Every player is different, but 99% of players go by the model I provided. Money, Winning, Loyalty. As part of loyalty, you can even go with "going home".

Outside of LeBron going back to Cleveland (after he won titles), how many guys go home to avoid money or winning? Paul George went to LA, but he got top money to do so. The whole Mitchell argument seems to be around him going home. I think money and winning are more important. If he gets a max deal, I think he's around for a long time.

As for Rudy, I have a feeling he's going to expect more than max. I think he should be gone via trade if he expects more than the max. We will regret $35+ on Rudy in a couple years more than we regret the Conley trade.
 
LoPo said:
Every player is different, but 99% of players go by the model I provided. Money, Winning, Loyalty. As part of loyalty, you can even go with "going home".

Outside of LeBron going back to Cleveland (after he won titles), how many guys go home to avoid money or winning? Paul George went to LA, but he got top money to do so. The whole Mitchell argument seems to be around him going home. I think money and winning are more important. If he gets a max deal, I think he's around for a long time.

As for Rudy, I have a feeling he's going to expect more than max. I think he should be gone via trade if he expects more than the max. We will regret $35+ on Rudy in a couple years more than we regret the Conley trade.
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I disagree. Plenty of players choose to play for coaches they like, systems they like, be around players they like, move to areas they want to live in more, their role on the team, and so on. Money is a big factor for lots of guys, often its the same in multiple places though. Winning is important but your actual role is often more important depending on where you are at in your career. There are a lot more reasons than that and it varies quite a bit from player to player.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Your strange obsession with this topic is creepy. Maybe try getting a boyfriend/girlfriend to obsess over?
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If it wasn’t being talked about so often I wouldn’t talk about it lol. Twitter is a place that is always talking.
 
PattBattMann said:
It all comes down to winning. I think that the whole big market for exposure is now a fallacy. With digital media and advanced technology, you can be a superstar while being in a small market. Look at LeBron in Cleveland. Don seems to have high character and be a good dude so I believe that he will be loyal. However, he is also very competitive and wants to win. Currently, he doesn't have too much help.
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Currently he doesn’t have much help because Bogey is injured offensively. The Jazz have done a far better job giving him help than most guys in his draft class. That’s far from an excuse I’m willing to hear. He’s won more games than almost anyone in his draft class, him being an important part to that, but also the team he had around him as well.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I disagree. Plenty of players choose to play for coaches they like, systems they like, be around players they like, move to areas they want to live in more, their role on the team, and so on. Money is a big factor for lots of guys, often its the same in multiple places though. Winning is important but your actual role is often more important depending on where you are at in your career. There are a lot more reasons than that and it varies quite a bit from player to player.
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Moving for winning while also getting max is exactly my point. Hayward to Boston (where he still got max), LeBron back to Cleveland (where he still got max), and other such examples don't provide any sort of blueprint for Mitchell wanting out like it's being discussed. Almost always, a guy leaves for money or for a chance to win. Sometimes, you get vets who have made millions who are in the last stages of their careers going to a contender. But it's not like they are going home or leaving where they are because of a bad experience. They are chasing a title and willing to take slightly less to do so.
 
I'll hazard a guess that Mitchell won't be the first player ever to be offered the max but still sign the QO to become unrestricted after next year. So he'll get a max extension and be under team control for half a decade.

So I really don't know why this is a conversation.
 
And when we do give Mitchell his max we really need to adjust our roster and make him the PG. He should always be the smallest player in any lineup he is in. His running mate at the 2 should be a tall, good shooter type. Oni anyone?
 
When I start taking Jalen Rose seriously I'll know it's time to quit the NBA, I will have obviously lost my mind.
 
Mitchell is under team control through his next contract. Even if the Jazz tell him to go get a contract on the market, the Jazz will match it in restricted free agency.
 
Guys like Paul Pierce are right though that star guards have not shown the ability to lead a team to a championship. Players like Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Rose, Wade, even Kobe, etc. have shown you need a star big man or star wing to go all the way.

The Jazz need a star wing to go between Mitchell and Gobert.

But lets be clear about just how difficult it is to win a championship. The Lakers with Lebron + AD probably aren't going to do it. The Bucks with Giannis playing like the MVP + DPOY wouldn't be favored over the Clippers. The Rockets with two former MVPs probably won't get past the 2nd round.
 
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Catchall said:
Mitchell is under team control through his next contract. Even if the Jazz tell him to go get a contract on the market, the Jazz will match it in restricted free agency.
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Eh, if he wants a trade he'll get traded. Don't care for the smoke of late. It is possible another GM is putting this out there as well.
 
While other team help their no1 player play their best game. What we've done is to load Donovan/Rudy with burdens. Take the ball out of Donovan’s hand. Have Rudy carry the entire teams paint defense/perimeter cover/rebounding on his shoulder.

Imagine Mavs puts Doncic at power forward. Lakers uses Lebron as a three point shooter. Or Bucks packs the paint for Giannis instead of surrounding him with shooters. Then maybe these same guys will question whether Luka/LBJ/Giannis deserves max
 
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