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Game Thread Jan 01, 2022 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Warriors

Added to Calendar: 01-01-22

this loss doesn't mean anything come May. But a few ongoing issues were on display (perimeter defense when Rudy is off the floor, Ingles decline) and with the trade deadline approaching that's all everyone is thinking about. Think we would have won this game had Whiteside been available. He's really the biggest improvement to our roster this year. Last year Favors was not able to cover the Gobert role the way Whiteside has been able to. The question is whether or not Whiteside can play in the playoffs--you never really know until the playoffs happen. We had no idea Naing couldn't even be on the floor in a competitive game until it happened. But Whiteside I think might be for real.
 
KqWIN said:
If the application of money ball is not correct, it’s not money ball! If you don’t like how Quin is making his decisions, you could just as easily say we need MORE or BETTER money ball.

Money ball is a simplified blanket term to begin with, but the way it’s being used right now is 1) to describe poor application of analytics and or 2) as a label for anything we don’t like to begin with.

Just in the last game we tried two different strategies that could not have further rationale for playing those lineups. It’s not money ball that causes Quin to make every decision. People got to stop bringing it up every time something bad happens.
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Sorry if the term offends. It’s pretty clear what I’m talking about, though.
 
KqWIN said:
The term isn't offensive, it just becomes completely meaningless when used this way. As is any term being used to describe the opposite.
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Isn’t moneyball used as a pejorative anyway? Isn’t that where it was coined, based on the Oakland FO framing a system around a statistical gimmick?
 
infection said:
Isn’t moneyball used as a pejorative anyway? Isn’t that where it was coined, based on the Oakland FO framing a system around a statistical gimmick?
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No, it's not a pejorative lmao. That's my point. Money Ball is not a catch all for everything you dislike. The implication that Quin does not adjust because too much moneyball is hilarious. If I said the opposite and said Quin does not adjust because he has a lack of moneyball that statement is more true.
 
KqWIN said:
Money Ball is not a catch all for everything you dislike.
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Oh **** me. I’m having to get a bunch of work stuff done tonight that I’m dreading and here I was calling it moneyball. I’m also having to amend last year’s state taxes and I was almost certain that was moneyball, too. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
I'm going to go moneyball the **** out of a plate of hot wings here in a minute and when I'm done with that I'm gonna moneyball my wife... maybe twice.

BChlVuI.jpg
 
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fallenchicken said:
this loss doesn't mean anything come May. But a few ongoing issues were on display (perimeter defense when Rudy is off the floor, Ingles decline) and with the trade deadline approaching that's all everyone is thinking about. Think we would have won this game had Whiteside been available. He's really the biggest improvement to our roster this year. Last year Favors was not able to cover the Gobert role the way Whiteside has been able to. The question is whether or not Whiteside can play in the playoffs--you never really know until the playoffs happen. We had no idea Naing couldn't even be on the floor in a competitive game until it happened. But Whiteside I think might be for real.
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The difference between us and Phoenix is that Phoenix has Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, and Jae Crowder taking the primary minutes at the 3/4 spots - good offensively and defensively.

We have O'Neal, Bogdonavic, and Gay - slightly better/on-par offensively, much worse defensively.

Their combination of 3s/4s are much better suited for playoff basketball than ours. IDK how many times last night those 3 guys got torched by Golden State.
 
NUMBERICA said:
It’s worth mentioning that the Warriors were without Draymond and Klay Thompson. And Wiseman (if he becomes a good player).
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Yep.
They did have curry though. Man i wish we had curry. He is really good


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jazz4life1992 said:
The difference between us and Phoenix is that Phoenix has Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, and Jae Crowder taking the primary minutes at the 3/4 spots - good offensively and defensively.

We have O'Neal, Bogdonavic, and Gay - slightly better/on-par offensively, much worse defensively.

Their combination of 3s/4s are much better suited for playoff basketball than ours. IDK how many times last night those 3 guys got torched by Golden State.
Click to expand...
 
jazz4life1992 said:
The difference between us and Phoenix is that Phoenix has Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, and Jae Crowder taking the primary minutes at the 3/4 spots - good offensively and defensively.

We have O'Neal, Bogdonavic, and Gay - slightly better/on-par offensively, much worse defensively.

Their combination of 3s/4s are much better suited for playoff basketball than ours. IDK how many times last night those 3 guys got torched by Golden State.
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I agree. Last year I thought our guys were over the hill and just couldn't last the whole game/series/playoffs. I don't know about the comparative strengths that much, but having legs to run on the end of the game makes all the difference.

What have we done add depth/youth to cover this problem?
 
infection said:
Isn’t moneyball used as a pejorative anyway? Isn’t that where it was coined, based on the Oakland FO framing a system around a statistical gimmick?
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+Used to be used to describe really important situations where a game meant a lot. Obviously, it can be applied in different ways, even in crudities, or pejoratively to describe teams who have the money to buy the best talent. Our players typically are not that level in the pay scales. And because we can't buy more talent, we have to work our talent hartder.

I was encouraged to see our team keep up as long as they did. I think we'll have another game with the Warriors where they are the ones comintg in from a lot of games and we're more rested, and I think we can bheat them in their nest, on those terms. I think our more experienced players made strategic plays that cut down their wear in the game.
 
infection said:
Isn’t moneyball used as a pejorative anyway? Isn’t that where it was coined, based on the Oakland FO framing a system around a statistical gimmick?
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If it was a gimmick, it's become one of the most widely copied gimmicks in MLB. Most of the principles of money-ball have been copied by the large-market MLB teams, to my understanding (my brother is a huge baseball fan and keeps up with this stuff).
 
One Brow said:
If it was a gimmick, it's become one of the most widely copied gimmicks in MLB. Most of the principles of money-ball have been copied by the large-market MLB teams, to my understanding (my brother is a huge baseball fan and keeps up with this stuff).
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I mean focusing on something narrow like on base percentage.
 
DasJazz said:
Denzel Valentine is becoming a free agent.
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I’ve always like when I’ve seen him play. Stats kinda meh and worse than what he’s looked like against us. Not sure what he really is like, though.
 
infection said:
I’ve always like when I’ve seen him play. Stats kinda meh and worse than what he’s looked like against us. Not sure what he really is like, though.
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I'd be willing to take a flyer on him, maybe a 10 day or something to see if he's salvageable. He's got talent just needs the right system to out it all together.
 
infection said:
I mean focusing on something narrow like on base percentage.
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Yes, as do I, except it is several narrow things. The As were trying to use limited resources to find under-valued players by looking at these narrow, key factors. Major-0market teams have adopted this search for these key factors, and been able to apply their larger budgets to the acquisition of players.
 
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