Jazz Offseason Plan

[Handlogten's Heros]

Also, I was kinda thinking we’d have the FO reshuffling done by this week. Teams are hot and heavy into draft workouts and we need to add some sanity to that decision-making process.

Ainge is likely already giving his 2 cents and JZ was moved up... I think that’s gonna be our shuffling for now... battier is doing some non basketball stuff right now.

 

[LoPo]

I'm not opposed to Neto but they absolutely need someone that can stay healthy. Here's a list of free agents: https://hoopshype.com/lists/2021-nba-free-agent-rankings-top-point-guards-available-right-now/

The best realistic options for a Conley replacement and/or backup (not counting Lonzo but I'm down for it): Schroeder, TJ McConnell, Ish Smith, Patty Mills, Kris Dunn, and Neto. Everyone else will either be too expensive, won't leave, or aren't good enough.

Jingles convincing Patty Mills to come here for minimum or close to it would be extremely savvy. They could play next year together before Joe leaves for home.

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[NUMBERICA]

I suppose we should be grateful that the FO has finally identified that a well-rounded wing player is something the Jazz need rather than yet another pure center freshly out of a cryogenic chamber or a small guard. It's progress.

 

[homeytennis]

Jingles convincing Patty Mills to come here for minimum or close to it would be extremely savvy. They could play next year together before Joe leaves for home.

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They are teammates on the Aussie Olympic team along with DedEx.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jingles convincing Patty Mills to come here for minimum or close to it would be extremely savvy. They could play next year together before Joe leaves for home.

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I would bet he ends up with offers in the taxpayer MLE range. He hasn't made the max money some guys have so guessing he goes to the highest bidder. I mean at the minimum I'd be over the moon.

 

[Jazzbot]

Ainge is likely already giving his 2 cents and JZ was moved up... I think that’s gonna be our shuffling for now... battier is doing some non basketball stuff right now.

A Boston article from 2 days ago had Ainge continuing to say there's nothing going on between him and the Jazz (he's still helping Boston with their draft process btw) and that any role he would want to take at this point in his life would be an advisory role and only that. We'll see I guess, but he maintains it's not a thing as of a couple days ago.

Here's the article

Can Ime Udoka juggle Olympic team and Celtics’ Summer League team and other observations - The Boston Globe

It’s fairly common for first-time head coaches to guide summer squads.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[Jingled]

I've always had this feeling about local media in that you're almost not allowed to criticize ownership/front office for the Jazz. It has this feeling of "well you have a NBA team in your state and they don't completely suck so you aren't allowed to bad mouth them" Being as I've never lived outside of the state of Utah and don't really care for coving other teams closely I wonder what local media perception is to their respective teams.

Andy Larsen is very critical at times. He's not really afraid to go after anyone... players, coaches or front office. He seems to be the only Jazz reporter that is willing to do this.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Andy Larsen is very critical at times. He's not really afraid to go after anyone, players, coaches or front office. He seems to be the only Jazz reporter that is willing to so this.

Andy is one of us... and he goes hard at times.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A Boston article from 2 days ago had Ainge continuing to say there's nothing going on between him and the Jazz (he's still helping Boston with their draft process btw) and that any role he would want to take at this point in his life would be an advisory role and only that. We'll see I guess, but he maintains it's not a thing as of a couple days ago.

Here's the article

Can Ime Udoka juggle Olympic team and Celtics’ Summer League team and other observations - The Boston Globe

It’s fairly common for first-time head coaches to guide summer squads.

www.bostonglobe.com

He's a double agent. He's golfing with Ryan... getting intel from Boston... he's a snake... but now we are on the good side of his treachery.

 

[LoPo]

Lol Kuzma isn’t that guy either man. You also are trying to bring him in at the expense of Bogey. Picks in the future don’t help us win now.

That’s a move we make if we aren’t trying to win now. We either need to go all the way the **** in or pivot off of Rudy and make trades like that.

We can agree to disagree. I think Zuzma can provide most of the offense Bojan provides and definitely provide the rebounding Bojan doesn't.

I also only do the trade if the right person is there at #22. If we draft a contributor at #22, I think that drafted player plus Zuzma gives us more than just Bojan.

I also think we could mold Kuzma to be our playoff small ball center. He's a solid rebounder, getting better at defending and is 6'10".

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[infection]

Here’s my pie-in-the-sky moves of a team that we couldn’t put together…

Do HH’s nuclear option of Favors and #30 to OKC for Dort. See if you can get Dwight Howard here for veteran’s minimum (probably can’t), then sign Udoh or some other person who actually protects the rim if that’s what Quin is insistent on doing. See if you can get Mills (probably can’t) as he’d be a good guy to give Conley relief and give Joe a blow. See if you can land OPJ (probably can’t), then in that case get Craig.

Rich man’s version:

Conley / Mills
Donovan / JC / Dort
Bojan / Ingles
OPJ / Royce
Gobert / Dwight

Poor man’s version:

Conley / Neto
Donovan / JC
Bojan / Ingles
Royce / Craig
Gobert / Udoh

The “just our luck” version:


Avery Bradley / Nico Mannion
DM / JC
Bojan / Niang
Royce / Solomon Hill
Rudy / Favors / Dok / McGee / Udonis Haslem

 

[infection]

Here’s my pie-in-the-sky moves of a team that we couldn’t put together…

Do HH’s nuclear option of Favors and #30 to OKC for Dort. See if you can get Dwight Howard here for veteran’s minimum (probably can’t), then sign Udoh or some other person who actually protects the rim if that’s what Quin is insistent on doing. See if you can get Mills (probably can’t) as he’d be a good guy to give Conley relief and give Joe a blow. See if you can land OPJ (probably can’t), then in that case get Craig.

Rich man’s version:

Conley / Mills
Donovan / JC / Dort
Bojan / Ingles
OPJ / Royce
Gobert / Dwight

Poor man’s version:

Conley / Neto
Donovan / JC
Bojan / Ingles
Royce / Craig
Gobert / Udoh

The “just our luck” version:


Avery Bradley / Nico Mannion
DM / JC
Bojan / Niang
Royce / Solomon Hill
Rudy / Favors / Dok / McGee / Udonis Haslem

And this neglects my “big splash” move that I’ll reveal once I get around to making a tl;dr thread.

 

[Jazzman12]

As we spend the early offseason bantering back and forth on what we think the Jazz should or will do in the upcoming weeks, there’s one mental road block that keeps popping up, reminding me that for the first time in 37 years of being a Jazz fan, I probably have ZERO idea of what the Jazz will do.

I realize that while we’ve seen a few different FO’s during that span, we also haven’t seen a FO operate that wasn’t ran by the Millers. The fact of the matter is that the Layden’s and their philosophies weren’t any different than KOC and his philosophies. Hell, that’s EXACTLY why KOC was hired. He fit the Miller mindset to a “T” and it’s no accident that Lindsey was the next man up after KOC. As a fan base, we’ve been spoon fed the EXACT same philosophy from our Front Office for the last 40 years because that mindset was the marching orders handed down my Miller ownership.

I can honestly say that for the first time in 4 decades, we’re in uncharted territory. In looking into Ryan Smith’s business philosophies, he seems to really key on one major talking point: Complacency will kill you faster that anything. It goes hand in hand with the age old mantra that the biggest enemy to great is good. The truth is, we could come up with 100 reasons why Larry and Gail Miller were fantastic owners, but at the same time, it would be extremely easy to come up with just as many reasons why this team was never winning a title under Miller ownership. To put it bluntly, they were happy being really good, and were not willing to put that at risk for the chance at being great.

I’ll readily admit that I have absolutely no idea what Ryan Smith is about to do, but I feel extremely confident that for the first time in ages, it will be something different. I think it’s pretty clear that Smith didn’t give D-Wade a REALLY sweet deal to own a small chunk of the Jazz just so he could show him off sitting court side all season long. Smith realizes that the status quo isn’t gonna win us anything and that it’s also the quickest way to run Donovan out of town. D-Wade is going to be a major player in how this roster looks going forward and I’m pretty excited to see what that looks like.
I think it’s very feasible that the 2021-22 Utah Jazz roster doesn’t have Bogey, Jingles, Favors, and maybe even Rudy anywhere to be seen come opening night. Ryan Smith is absolutely terrified of complacency and if he runs his basketball team like he runs his business, we’re going to learn that very quickly.

 

[LoPo]

Moves I would make:

Bojan for Kuzma, #22 and future draft considerations

S&T Conley to Philly, Boston or Indiana. Get Brogdon, Smart and an asset, 3 team where Simmons goes elsewhere and we get something.

If Charlotte throws us the kitchen sink with an offer for Rudy in October, take it if we still have Favors and Doke.





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[oneye]

As we spend the early offseason bantering back and forth on what we think the Jazz should or will do in the upcoming weeks, there’s one mental road block that keeps popping up, reminding me that for the first time in 37 years of being a Jazz fan, I probably have ZERO idea of what the Jazz will do.

I realize that while we’ve seen a few different FO’s during that span, we also haven’t seen a FO operate that wasn’t ran by the Millers. The fact of the matter is that the Layden’s and their philosophies weren’t any different than KOC and his philosophies. Hell, that’s EXACTLY why KOC was hired. He fit the Miller mindset to a “T” and it’s no accident that Lindsey was the next man up after KOC. As a fan base, we’ve been spoon fed the EXACT same philosophy from our Front Office for the last 40 years because that mindset was the marching orders handed down my Miller ownership.

I can honestly say that for the first time in 4 decades, we’re in uncharted territory. In looking into Ryan Smith’s business philosophies, he seems to really key on one major talking point: Complacency will kill you faster that anything. It goes hand in hand with the age old mantra that the biggest enemy to great is good. The truth is, we could come up with 100 reasons why Larry and Gail Miller were fantastic owners, but at the same time, it would be extremely easy to come up with just as many reasons why this team was never winning a title under Miller ownership. To put it bluntly, they were happy being really good, and were not willing to put that at risk for the chance at being great.

I’ll readily admit that I have absolutely no idea what Ryan Smith is about to do, but I feel extremely confident that for the first time in ages, it will be something different. I think it’s pretty clear that Smith didn’t give D-Wade a REALLY sweet deal to own a small chunk of the Jazz just so he could show him off sitting court side all season long. Smith realizes that the status quo isn’t gonna win us anything and that it’s also the quickest way to run Donovan out of town. D-Wade is going to be a major player in how this roster looks going forward and I’m pretty excited to see what that looks like.
I think it’s very feasible that the 2021-22 Utah Jazz roster doesn’t have Bogey, Jingles, Favors, and maybe even Rudy anywhere to be seen come opening night. Ryan Smith is absolutely terrified of complacency and if he runs his basketball team like he runs his business, we’re going to learn that very quickly.

Wade wasn’t solely brought in for Donovan, but a big reason he was brought in was for Donovan. Donovan trusts Wade pretty clearly, and Wade is the gap filler between organizational choices, and how Donovan is truly feeling. Wade got a “sweet deal” money wise likely sure, but his value in his ownership stake is just him personally in his connections, relationships, etc. that add so much value. Wade will for sure influence things in a big way, and will likely let Ryan know what he needs to know about Mitchell’s feelings on everything. Smith will be aggressive for sure, it’s why I’d really really like the FO set up some point soon. I also think Smiths relationship with Donovan is pretty good. Donovan gives Ryan a hug most games he walks off the court. The Jazz need to win, and the fanbase needs to stop having issues. Those are the bottom lines. If Donovan leaves it won’t be because he hates the organization. It will be because it isn’t winning, and/or he doesn’t feel connected to the community he plays basketball for. One of the true lines in Monsons diatribe there is Donovan absolutely wants a fanbase he feels like is worth winning for, and this fanbase is, the fanbase (I know I know) for the most part worships the dude, but I think he needs to see it as well, because he’s undoubtably let some of the noise/perception get him in his feelings.

I want to see who they hire for the front office. Ainge will probably be an advisor at some point, but it’s been mentioned by almost all reports and the one posted above just adds another, it’ll be as an advisor most likely. I’m interested to see how Ryan structures things and who he hires and how deeply catered to Mitchell it truly is. If it’s deeply catered to Mitchell, I would expect some major roster shakeups going forward, because the FO being catered to him, will show a wholesale “all in” on trying to make him happy.

 

[infection]

Wade wasn’t solely brought in for Donovan, but a big reason he was brought in was for Donovan. Donovan trusts Wade pretty clearly, and Wade is the gap filler between organizational choices, and how Donovan is truly feeling. Wade got a “sweet deal” money wise likely sure, but his value in his ownership stake is just him personally in his connections, relationships, etc. that add so much value. Wade will for sure influence things in a big way, and will likely let Ryan know what he needs to know about Mitchell’s feelings on everything. Smith will be aggressive for sure, it’s why I’d really really like the FO set up some point soon. I also think Smiths relationship with Donovan is pretty good. Donovan gives Ryan a hug most games he walks off the court. The Jazz need to win, and the fanbase needs to stop having issues. Those are the bottom lines. If Donovan leaves it won’t be because he hates the organization. It will be because it isn’t winning, and/or he doesn’t feel connected to the community he plays basketball for. One of the true lines in Monsons diatribe there is Donovan absolutely wants a fanbase he feels like is worth winning for, and this fanbase is, the fanbase (I know I know) for the most part worships the dude, but I think he needs to see it as well, because he’s undoubtably let some of the noise/perception get him in his feelings.

So a large part of your premise is that he needs to stay away from you?

 

[Jazzman12]

…and to piggyback off my last post, I wouldn’t be surprised one bit to see Utah try and put a 3-4 team deal together to bring Lillard back to Utah. While I know it’s EXTREMELY unlikely, this is probably the year that Portland sits back and takes a hard look at the fact that the Lillard/McCullom plan just hasn’t worked, and probably isn’t going to. The Jazz probably don’t have any kind of package that doesn’t include Donovan that Portland would be interested in, but if you made a list of Jazz assets that includes any combo of: Rudy, Bogey, Clarkson, Favors, Ingles, Royce, and a few unprotected 1st round picks, it’s not too far out of the realm that by bringing in 1 or 2 other teams, something enticing enough could be presented for Portland to pivot and set Dame free.

Obviously, that leaves us worse Defensively and with yet another small backcourt, but you’ve basically put Dame in DM into a position in which neither will be double teamed ever again (when both are on the court anyway). I know Donovan got his points in the Clipper series, but when Lue committed to throwing a hard double team at DM, our offense didn’t respond. We were disjointed, out of sorts, and never really recovered before being eliminated. Plus, a team headlined by Dame/DM is probably enticing enough to get some quality 3 and D wings to come here on vet minimums.

Is this scenario likely? Hell no, but I do think it serves as a good example of what a Ryan Smith led Utah Jazz organization is now willing to at least attempt.

 

[That1UtahFan]

Wade wasn’t solely brought in for Donovan, but a big reason he was brought in was for Donovan. Donovan trusts Wade pretty clearly, and Wade is the gap filler between organizational choices, and how Donovan is truly feeling. Wade got a “sweet deal” money wise likely sure, but his value in his ownership stake is just him personally in his connections, relationships, etc. that add so much value. Wade will for sure influence things in a big way, and will likely let Ryan know what he needs to know about Mitchell’s feelings on everything. Smith will be aggressive for sure, it’s why I’d really really like the FO set up some point soon. I also think Smiths relationship with Donovan is pretty good. Donovan gives Ryan a hug most games he walks off the court. The Jazz need to win, and the fanbase needs to stop having issues. Those are the bottom lines. If Donovan leaves it won’t be because he hates the organization. It will be because it isn’t winning, and/or he doesn’t feel connected to the community he plays basketball for. One of the true lines in Monsons diatribe there is Donovan absolutely wants a fanbase he feels like is worth winning for, and this fanbase is, the fanbase (I know I know) for the most part worships the dude, but I think he needs to see it as well, because he’s undoubtably let some of the noise/perception get him in his feelings.

What other FO positions need filling? Haven't kept track of who has left their position other than DL. My assumption was Zanik is fully taking over GM/Basketball operation duties and that's kind of the end of it.

 

[Jazzman12]

What other FO positions need filling? Haven't kept track of who has left their position other than DL. My assumption was Zanik is fully taking over GM/Basketball operation duties and that's kind of the end of it.

This is exactly what I’m wondering. The team made it a point to say that Zanik now has full say over personnel. I can’t imagine they’d go on record with that only to pull the rug out from under him by hiring a VP of Basketball Operations in the same offseason.

People are waiting for the other shoe to drop when there isn’t another shoe. I think we’ll see some scouts and advisors hired, but nothing that usurps Zanik’s role as “The Man”.

 

[oneye]

So a large part of your premise is that he needs to stay away from you?

Oh yeah.