Jazz vs. Mavs in round one

[LoPo]

I asked Lopo if he had any reason, any evidence whatsoever to justify why he believed that Gobert was a defensive superstar all regular season, to the point where with him we were a top 1 defense and without him a bottom 4 defense, and why that suddenly wasn't the case against OKC in the playoffs when OKC's paint scoring mysteriously died and their top 10 offense fell to bottom 3 against us.

He dodged the question.

I said Rudy had a good series. I said Rudy played well. I also said that Donovan was our star in that series, which he was, and you just have to insist that Rudy was also a star which he was not.

OKC lost complete cohesion in that series for a number of reasons - Rudy, we had better defenders back then, Melo not passing, Russ not passing, PG choking at times.

Rudy is a damn good player, and better now than he was then, but he wasn't a star in the OKC series win. You can twist the regular season stats all you want, but facts are facts.

 

[Gameface]

Unfortunately, I am basically certain this is correct. Did everyone forget the All-Star Game is gonna be here next year? If only for reasons of pride, the Jazz aren’t going to field a tanker (only the second time in franchise history IF they did it) the year they host the ASG.

I just try, with a fair degree of success, to forget that the NBA allstar game exists at all.

 

[LoPo]

-but what about something something and
-at least he’s “objective” and “doesn’t attack our own players”

Are you going to sit there and seriously say that Rudy Gobert was a star in the OKC series win? I mean seriously?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I hope I'm wrong, but after watching this team blow so many double digit 4th qtr and 20+ second half leads, I'm not confident they won't continue to choke down the stretch.

We haven’t dealt with pressure and there seems to be emotional scarring from the game 6 collapse last year.

It can reverse maybe but brains are weird AF. This is a weird example from my life but I used to get really nervous when taking the CPA exam. I was a great test taker in college but this was different because it had a direct effect on my career… there are 4 parts of the exam that you take on 4 separate dates. Each time I drove to the testing center my stomach would go in knots at the same intersection on my drive… this wasn’t I’m nervous butterflies… it was full on Rodney Hood “you must find a restroom now or you will be ******** your pants” syndrome. Holding it in to the point I’m sweating. Thankfully I found a restroom each time and passed the exam on my first attempts of each part… but every time it happened at the same damn stop light.

Human brains and bodies are linked and we may be psychologically broken. They have a team psychologist and I really think they should be working overtime on the mental part of this. Maybe they have a breakthrough and figure it out. Maybe they wilt under the increased playoff pressure. We shall see very soon.

 

[infection]

We haven’t dealt with pressure and there seems to be emotional scarring from the game 6 collapse last year.

It can reverse maybe but brains are weird AF. This is a weird example from my life but I used to get really nervous when taking the CPA exam. I was a great test taker in college but this was different because it had a direct effect on my career… there are 4 parts of the exam that you take on 4 separate dates. Each time I drove to the testing center my stomach would go in knots at the same intersection on my drive… this wasn’t I’m nervous butterflies… it was full on Rodney Hood “you must find a restroom now or you will be ******** your pants” syndrome. Holding it in to the point I’m sweating. Thankfully I found a restroom each time and passed the exam on my first attempts of each part… but every time it happened at the same damn stop light.

Human brains and bodies are linked and we may be psychologically broken. They have a team psychologist and I really think they should be working overtime on the mental part of this. Maybe they have a breakthrough and figure it out. Maybe they wilt under the increased playoff pressure. We shall see very soon.

And of course it's possible that the problems end up being regular season only and go away in the playoffs, but to say that is based purely on speculation and has absolutely no data to support it and a mountain of data against it. I think that's the biggest thing many won't acknowledge. We can certainly appeal to "now it matters," but there's literally nothing backing that up other than a blind hope. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just absolutely no evidence for it.

 

[MT Steve]

I said Rudy had a good series. I said Rudy played well. I also said that Donovan was our star in that series, which he was, and you just have to insist that Rudy was also a star which he was not.

OKC lost complete cohesion in that series for a number of reasons - Rudy, we had better defenders back then, Melo not passing, Russ not passing, PG choking at times.

Rudy is a damn good player, and better now than he was then, but he wasn't a star in the OKC series win. You can twist the regular season stats all you want, but facts are facts.

I don't think you know what a fact is, actually.

 

[bopahull]

I wish Luka was healthy.

The way I view it is - if we're a title contender, we should be able to beat them anyways. If we're not a title contender, then there's really no potential for accomplishing anything meaningful in this postseason - we beat the Mavs without Luka and then get crushed by the Suns, whoohoo.

Beating the Mavs with Luka would've been kinda cool.

Does this team look like a title contender to you? I say win as much as you can any way you can and I welcome any break this team gets.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Are you going to sit there and seriously say that Rudy Gobert was a star in the OKC series win? I mean seriously?

God you can't help but parody yourself.

A good portion of my razzing of you is in the hope that you obtain any self-awareness and you usually sprint the other way.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Does this team look like a title contender to you? I say win as much as you can any way you can and I welcome any break this team gets.

I think some of us are working under the assumption that changes have been needed for a while and that a "playoff win" will give the front office and ownership some ability to rationalize some minor moves again.

Some pod I listened too actually went waaaaay back into Ainge's trade history and he may be the guy who will bring the hatchet if needed. DL certainly wouldn't and I think Ryan is going to be concerned about fan perception more than he should. So maybe Danny being ruthless will help... he also might not be willing to start over at this age so we slowly bleed out until Donovan requests out.

 

[bopahull]

I think the jazz are going to sweep. Quin was quoted as saying this is the healthiest and most rested team that he has ever had heading into the playoffs. All the media attention they have recently gotten about 4th quarter collapses and Don not passing to Rudy, etc has them all pissed off and biting at the chomp to come out and dominate. They are healthier, more experienced and more talented than the mavs and I think they have the bigger chip on their shoulders as well.
Mavs are ****ed.

I sincerely hope you're right, but I wouldn't bet the house.

 

[KqWIN]

I think some of us are working under the assumption that changes have been needed for a while and that a "playoff win" will give the front office and ownership some ability to rationalize some minor moves again.

Some pod I listened too actually went waaaaay back into Ainge's trade history and he may be the guy who will bring the hatchet if needed. DL certainly wouldn't and I think Ryan is going to be concerned about fan perception more than he should. So maybe Danny being ruthless will help... he also might not be willing to start over at this age so we slowly bleed out until Donovan requests out.

The two most important people in the franchise are still Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert. If those two are convinced they can still win together after this playoffs, that is a huge win for the franchise. Probably would take a victory over PHX or a close loss, but the franchise is in a good spot (or as good as possible) if Mitchell and Gobert are still committed to playing with each other. I don't think that means the exact same team is brought back again. I think it would finally force the franchise to make the obvious moves that needed to be made for years.

The scenario where we win and bring back the same team isn't real IMO. The scenario where we blow everything up and trade Don+Rudy has zero percent chance of happening unless Don himself asks out. The alternative where we trade Don and keep Rudy only exists if Don asks out as well. Trade So we're really only left with two scenarios. Don-Rudy are content and we shuffle the pieces around them, or we trade Rudy and do our best with those pieces around Mitchell. I can't really see it playing out any other way. The only important thing as far as the fallout from these playoffs is whether or not Don-Rudy are content playing together.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The two most important people in the franchise are still Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert. If those two are convinced they can still win together after this playoffs, that is a huge win for the franchise. Probably would take a victory over PHX or a close loss, but the franchise is in a good spot (or as good as possible) if Mitchell and Gobert are still committed to playing with each other. I don't think that means the exact same team is brought back again. I think it would finally force the franchise to make the obvious moves that needed to be made for years.

The scenario where we win and bring back the same team isn't real IMO. The scenario where we blow everything up and trade Don+Rudy has zero percent chance of happening unless Don himself asks out. The alternative where we trade Don and keep Rudy only exists if Don asks out as well. Trade So we're really only left with two scenarios. Don-Rudy are content and we shuffle the pieces around them, or we trade Rudy and do our best with those pieces around Mitchell. I can't really see it playing out any other way. The only important thing as far as the fallout from these playoffs is whether or not Don-Rudy are content playing together.

If Phoenix is healthy I think they may straight dismember us.

I agree that we likely choose between the scenarios mentioned... I do think we should keep our hand on the nuclear button though if it doesn't work.

I think we win the series unless Luka is more healthy than we guess. I won't be surprised if we lose though and as we know injury luck can quickly reverse.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

Anything can happen. If the Jazz get out of the first round easily without any injuries or issues then they have their best chance in the second round. You don't know what kind of luck or misfortune the team they meet in the second round may be dealing with.

I know that all the naysaying is in part a self-defense mechanism for a lot of people but c'mon folks.

It sure is for me! Haha. I protect my little feelings with pessimism.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

That's the point. The idea that the regular season doesn't define the postseason is ridiculous. You are likely your seed and therefore if you're a five seed, you're not a contender.

The Jazz are a five seed for a reason. It's not for a lack of trying to be good, like some assume, and rather a result of the team not being as good as advertised prior to the season.

But you can look at a team's seed and pretty much know right away they're not a contender solely because their seeding is a result of 82 games and real contenders don't typically struggle consistently enough throughout the season to drop that far.

The one exception is Houston from 1995 and those anomaly years I mentioned where the Knicks won the East as an 8th seed.

I think this being a COVID year, and the horrendous January, could be factors in this being an outlier year. Jazz were top dogs last season. Arguably, now that Juancho and House are clicking, we're actually better than that team when healthy. Gotta figure out the whole collapse thing, that's the key. Playoffs are different than regular season. I can't rule out the possibility, though I think it's pretty unlikely.

 

[Avery]

If this team can mentally be dialed in, no reason to believe they can't compete with the best. Everyone's 0-0 come this weekend.

There's zero reason the Jazz should lose to a Maverick team without Luka in Game 1 - it simply can't happen. If it does, it's another reminder of how mentally broken this team as you could argue that we have the four best players on the floor.

I'm come to terms that whatever happens happens at this point and nothing will surprise me nor make me lose sleep.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

We haven’t dealt with pressure and there seems to be emotional scarring from the game 6 collapse last year.

It can reverse maybe but brains are weird AF. This is a weird example from my life but I used to get really nervous when taking the CPA exam. I was a great test taker in college but this was different because it had a direct effect on my career… there are 4 parts of the exam that you take on 4 separate dates. Each time I drove to the testing center my stomach would go in knots at the same intersection on my drive… this wasn’t I’m nervous butterflies… it was full on Rodney Hood “you must find a restroom now or you will be ******** your pants” syndrome. Holding it in to the point I’m sweating. Thankfully I found a restroom each time and passed the exam on my first attempts of each part… but every time it happened at the same damn stop light.

Human brains and bodies are linked and we may be psychologically broken. They have a team psychologist and I really think they should be working overtime on the mental part of this. Maybe they have a breakthrough and figure it out. Maybe they wilt under the increased playoff pressure. We shall see very soon.

It frustrated me when Quin was asked during postgame after the PHX debacle is there was a psychological component to the meltdowns and Quin basically shrugged that theory off. I don't know if he was being protective or coy or if he really doesn't think it's a factor, but it seemed like he was unwilling to even entertain that possibility. I wish they took the approach of "well, maybe it is psychological. If that's the case, what should we do to address it?" Instead, they seem to say "nah, can't be that" and move along to another meltdown.

 

[LoPo]

God you can't help but parody yourself.

A good portion of my razzing of you is in the hope that you obtain any self-awareness and you usually sprint the other way.

Self-awareness is caving to the opinions of others? I admit when I'm wrong all the time. That's self-awareness in my book. I don't see other people who are sometimes wrong ever say it.

Back to the point at hand - Donovan Mitchell was our star for the OKC series. He "led" us to that unprecedented, unanticipated series win. That doesn't mean he did it on his own because nobody does anything on their own. That doesn't mean others didn't play well. It's just a fact - Don was our guy that series.

I don't know why some people argue just to argue sometimes. I'm guilty of it too every once in a while, but it would be nice for people to just nod and move along. They seem incapable.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It frustrated me when Quin was asked during postgame after the PHX debacle is there was a psychological component to the meltdowns and Quin basically shrugged that theory off. I don't know if he was being protective or coy or if he really doesn't think it's a factor, but it seemed like he was unwilling to even entertain that possibility. I wish they took the approach of "well, maybe it is psychological. If that's the case, what should we do to address it?" Instead, they seem to say "nah, can't be that" and move along to another meltdown.

There are better ways to protect the team than to be incompetent or pretend the media is dumb and making something that is clearly nothing.

Simply saying we have struggled in some of those situations and maybe not kept our composure and executed as well as we should have is a way to acknowledge and move past it without making it some major mental block.

My issue is we’ve seen this line of thinking before… he’s just sold it better. According to Quin we have no issues with scheme, small ball or 5 out either. So I think Quin has a problem admitting issues and flaws which means you won’t diagnose them properly. His thing has been always that we didn’t execute well enough… if we executed these problems would go away… according to Quin.

I think Quin is good but has blind spots and is a bit rigid. I think his voice has lost some of its power as well. The rumors coming out about him looking at other opportunities are real imo and I think he’s also got an attitude that he just needs to hold this thing together a little while longer.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Looks like Luka is out for game one. I'm not sure why they didn't wait until the last minute to announce this?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If this team can mentally be dialed in, no reason to believe they can't compete with the best. Everyone's 0-0 come this weekend.

There's zero reason the Jazz should lose to a Maverick team without Luka in Game 1 - it simply can't happen. If it does, it's another reminder of how mentally broken this team as you could argue that we have the four best players on the floor.

I'm come to terms that whatever happens happens at this point and nothing will surprise me nor make me lose sleep.

In one game anything can happen. I’m terrified of a Dinwiddie, Kleber, or DFS/Bertans having the game of their playoff life and we end up losing and never recovering. This team gets punched and just stays down. We shall see I’m hoping to be wrong and they can find some testicular fortitude and basketball connectedness