Jazz vs. Mavs in round one

[fishonjazz]

To watch CP and Booker bury 1000 mid range jumpers.
View attachment 11950

Nah, jazz have more length and athleticism now. House, Whiteside, Gay, and juancho really change the complexion of the jazz for these playoffs. Man it would suck to go against to giant 7 footers for 48 minutes every game like the jazz have.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Well said.

To be more specific, he couldn't even identify that my post he responded to was a parody of him because he didn't address the criticism contained in it (when he can't refute a point he dislikes, he deflects with whataboutism or goes back to his tired and trounced points about how objective he is and that he doesn't speak ill of our players despite being THE LOUDEST Gobert hater on the board of all time. He can dress up the language however he likes but virtually everyone sees through it.).

Here's how to be self-aware; acknowledge an uncomfortable point that has merit and maybe have a laugh about it.

Someone here once called me Superlativica (a portmanteau of "superlative" and "Numberica") because my rhetoric is kinda dramatic. Hell, I just said LoPo was "THE LOUDEST Gobert hater" that the board has ever seen. Now, I think I'm right if we consider volume (I believe feeko takes the cake on share of posts devoted to Gobert hate and the depth that his rhetoric takes), but the point that my mind is always seeking out the extreme in these kinds of ways is well made. I think I do it less now, but maybe I don't.

I'm kind of an *******. I've told NAOS to be less of an ******* here and there and he ribbed me about kind of being an ******* myself and I agreed. Cuz I'm kind of an *******. I think I'm less of one than I used to be, but maybe I just post less and try to ignore people more. I don't know.

So there you have it. I'm kind of a dramatic *******. It's okay. There are worse crimes than not believing in Gobert or finding something about him to be grating, but maybe just ****ing own it? Or at least acknowledge whatever points that are being brought up head-on instead of flailing about some other ****.

I'm being an ******* again. Whoops.

 

[fishonjazz]

As far as length and athleticism goes comparing last season to this season is pretty nice to see. Niang vs gay/juancho. Gay and juancho are much longer and more athletic and better defenders and rebounders. Favors vs whiteside. Whiteside is better in pretty much every aspect of the game and in length and athleticism. Jingles vs House. House is much more athletic and the better defender at this stage in Joes career. Could add forrest in there too as he has good size, athleticism, and defense. Quin has a lot of options this season in comparison to last season when he didn't really have any options. If he can coach well in these playoffs then this team has the ability to really make a run.

 

[NUMBERICA]

As far as length and athleticism goes comparing last season to this season is pretty nice to see. Niang vs gay/juancho. Gay and juancho are much longer and more athletic and better defenders and rebounders. Favors vs whiteside. Whiteside is better in pretty much every aspect of the game and in length and athleticism. Jingles vs House. House is much more athletic and the better defender at this stage in Joes career. Could add forrest in there too as he has good size, athleticism, and defense. Quin has a lot of options this season in comparison to last season when he didn't really have any options. If he can coach well in these playoffs then this team has the ability to really make a run.

The Jazz have a substantially superior roster than they have not just last year, but since the late 90's teams. For sure. There might be other components to consider, but yes.

 

[fishonjazz]

The Jazz have a substantially superior roster than they have not just last year, but since the late 90's teams. For sure. There might be other components to consider, but yes.

Ya my concern is coaching and most obviously (and the by far biggest concern) finishing. I have to think that after what we witnessed to end this season that they will at least have a slightly (if not significantly) different gameplan at the end games. I mean I know that superstars like donovan have big egos and want to be the hero but he has to have saw what we all saw no matter what he is saying to the media. I bet we see donovan run the offense better at the end of close games in these playoffs. Cant really run it any worse right?

 

[fishonjazz]

last year heading into the playoffs I was confident because of our record. However looking at our roster I knew favors was ded, niang was severely limited, and ingles was slowly becoming ded. This season the record isn't near as pretty but when I look at the roster im not seeing much weakness to pick out or exploit. I think royce still plays way too much but thats about it. And last year despite our limitations with our roster we still went undefeated in the playoffs when our teams health was right.
I do think our backcourt is still too small and wish we brought conley off the bench though.

 

[Elizah Huge]

And basically everyone agreed.

Guess nobody got the joke. I’ll excuse myself out now.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

I think it doesn't matter what team Utah puts on the court, it's clear this franchise has a very consistent norm - at least the last 22 years.

It's not a coincidence the Jazz have only advanced to the Conference Finals once since the 1999 season.

Anyone who thinks Utah is better than their seed is just huffing the copium at this point and not grounded in any reality.

Last year's team was the anomaly and it not only proved itself with their humiliating exit in the playoffs to a shorthanded Clippers team (that made up for Utah's injuries too) but they've pretty much proven it this year with their inconsistent play (that goes well beyond just January).

This Jazz team is set for yet another playoff exit before even making it to the Conference Finals. The only two franchises who have a longer WCF drought (15 years now since the Jazz last made it) than the Jazz are New Orleans and Minnesota and it would not shock me if either made it there before the Jazz because again, what we're experiencing right now is the norm for this franchise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses and trying to talk themselves into believing this team is somehow deserving of being counted among the top based on a finish last year that still failed to net the franchise more than two wins in the semifinals (outside that Golden State series where the Jazz advanced to the WCF last, Utah hasn't won more than two games in a semifinals series since beating the Spurs... in 1998). How anyone can look at that remarkable consistency from this franchises and determine they're somehow better than their seed is just plain irrational fandom.

If Utah is better than their seed, they're better by just one. But there is no way this team is on the same level as the top-three and I'm confident we'll see this play out over the course of the next few weeks, either with Utah losing to Dallas or beating a shorthanded Mavs team and then losing 4-2 to Phoenix in the semifinals. Same as it ever was.

If I'm wrong I'll concede it. But if Utah gets by Dallas, I'll be shocked if they win more than two games against the Suns because I've seen this playoff play out pretty much every year I've been a Jazz fan. You have too. You just hope against hope that somehow this is the year the Jazz is better than their seeding.

Yeah and I've told myself that many years before, just to see them go out early.

You're hugely underplaying the fact that Mike played one game in that series

 

[KqWIN]

The Jazz have a substantially superior roster than they have not just last year, but since the late 90's teams. For sure. There might be other components to consider, but yes.

Really? I'm not sure about that. Compared to last year, the Jazz are missing Joe Ingles who played by far a bigger role than any of the other replacements. He was pretty clearly our 3rd best player in the Clipper series and also brought a ton of value in the locker room. It would be hard for Juancho/Gay to play worse than Niang did against LAC last year, but Niang was also a better player than those two going into last year than those two are this year. I would agree that Whiteside is an upgrade over Favors, but we're also talking about Whiteside in the playoffs. House is a nice player too, but it doesn't offset the impact of Joe Ingles. Mitchell is also a better player coming into the playoffs this year, but Conley and Bogey are also one year older.

In any case, I really can't say there's a substantial improvement on a roster when the the key players and lineups are the same minus Ingles.

 

[Avery]

To me, the biggest X-factor for our playoff run is Jordan Clarkson. He's either going to shoot the second unit into some good leads or completely kill any momentum.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think it doesn't matter what team Utah puts on the court, it's clear this franchise has a very consistent norm - at least the last 22 years.

It's not a coincidence the Jazz have only advanced to the Conference Finals once since the 1999 season.

Anyone who thinks Utah is better than their seed is just huffing the copium at this point and not grounded in any reality.

Last year's team was the anomaly and it not only proved itself with their humiliating exit in the playoffs to a shorthanded Clippers team (that made up for Utah's injuries too) but they've pretty much proven it this year with their inconsistent play (that goes well beyond just January).

This Jazz team is set for yet another playoff exit before even making it to the Conference Finals. The only two franchises who have a longer WCF drought (15 years now since the Jazz last made it) than the Jazz are New Orleans and Minnesota and it would not shock me if either made it there before the Jazz because again, what we're experiencing right now is the norm for this franchise. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses and trying to talk themselves into believing this team is somehow deserving of being counted among the top based on a finish last year that still failed to net the franchise more than two wins in the semifinals (outside that Golden State series where the Jazz advanced to the WCF last, Utah hasn't won more than two games in a semifinals series since beating the Spurs... in 1998). How anyone can look at that remarkable consistency from this franchises and determine they're somehow better than their seed is just plain irrational fandom.

If Utah is better than their seed, they're better by just one. But there is no way this team is on the same level as the top-three and I'm confident we'll see this play out over the course of the next few weeks, either with Utah losing to Dallas or beating a shorthanded Mavs team and then losing 4-2 to Phoenix in the semifinals. Same as it ever was.

If I'm wrong I'll concede it. But if Utah gets by Dallas, I'll be shocked if they win more than two games against the Suns because I've seen this playoff play out pretty much every year I've been a Jazz fan. You have too. You just hope against hope that somehow this is the year the Jazz is better than their seeding.

Yeah and I've told myself that many years before, just to see them go out early.

While everything you said here is mostly true, the logic behind it is kind of crazy. It's like saying because the past 5 Bob's you met were jerks, that the next Bob you meet will for sure be a jerk. Each team every year is unique, and the competition each year is unique.

Like I've said, I don't personally feel like we were under seeded this year. Not because of our past 22 years of Jazz history though, but because this year's team can't close out a game.

 

[fishonjazz]

Really? I'm not sure about that. Compared to last year, the Jazz are missing Joe Ingles who played by far a bigger role than any of the other replacements. He was pretty clearly our 3rd best player in the Clipper series and also brought a ton of value in the locker room. It would be hard for Juancho/Gay to play worse than Niang did against LAC last year, but Niang was also a better player than those two going into last year than those two are this year. I would agree that Whiteside is an upgrade over Favors, but we're also talking about Whiteside in the playoffs. House is a nice player too, but it doesn't offset the impact of Joe Ingles. Mitchell is also a better player coming into the playoffs this year, but Conley and Bogey are also one year older.

In any case, I really can't say there's a substantial improvement on a roster when the the key players and lineups are the same minus Ingles.

You can say that there are more options and versatility and athleticism and length though. Oh and Gobert is having his best season of his career (career high from the line in attempts and percentage, career high from the field, career high in rebounds, second best season ppg). You do make a good point about Jingles. He had a really good year for us last year. I do think his lack of athleticism hurt us defensively though.

 

[fishonjazz]

I wonder what our record would be if our 2 iron men (gobert and bojan) didn't miss so many games. We really struggled without those two.
Just noticed that bojan had a career high in rebounds per game this season.

 

[fishonjazz]

Royce oneal had a career low in rebounding. By quite a bit too. Looking at his stats its crazy that he plays 32 minutes per game. He is statistically so unproductive. I know he shoots a good percentage from 3 (39%) but those are typically wide open set shots. His defense is so over rated its crazy. He never gets to the line (less than 1 attempt per game)

 

[Katastrofica]

Royce oneal had a career low in rebounding. By quite a bit too. Looking at his stats its crazy that he plays 32 minutes per game. He is statistically so unproductive. I know he shoots a good percentage from 3 (39%) but those are typically wide open set shots. His defense is so over rated its crazy. He never gets to the line (less than 1 attempt per game)

U need to try to score if you want to get ft. One more thing did phoenix wonn in first round or im missing something?

 

[Jingled]

last year heading into the playoffs I was confident because of our record. However looking at our roster I knew favors was ded, niang was severely limited, and ingles was slowly becoming ded. This season the record isn't near as pretty but when I look at the roster im not seeing much weakness to pick out or exploit. I think royce still plays way too much but thats about it. And last year despite our limitations with our roster we still went undefeated in the playoffs when our teams health was right.
I do think our backcourt is still too small and wish we brought conley off the bench though.

Ingles was 6th man of the year runner up last year, had a historically great shooting season and was easily one of our best players in the Clippers series.

 

[Jingled]

I wonder what our record would be if our 2 iron men (gobert and bojan) didn't miss so many games. We really struggled without those two.
Just noticed that bojan had a career high in rebounds per game this season.

All teams have injuries. The Nuggets have been without their 2nd best player all season and their 3rd best player most of the season, and they still managed to have a nearly identical record to ours, we only won one more game than them. The Suns went 11-4 this year without Chris Paul, the Grizzlies went 20-4 without Ja. Teams very rarely make deep playoff runs without an injury or two along the way. If we have to be completely healthy to win games, then we are in trouble in the post season.

 

[LoPo]

Self-awareness is stepping back and realizing that he hasn't engaged you on the point you're arguing with him about at all. You're essentially having an argument with yourself. That's very un-self aware.

You think because people don't agree with you completely that they disagree with you completely and you're imagining that they are essentially saying things that they are not saying. That's lack of self awareness.

Yep. It's my fault for saying that Donovan was our star in that series. Clearly Rudy was incredibly dominant and Don was the bystander. Rudy's regular season numbers clearly show that he was dominant in that series. And if there were any positive metrics showing good defense at any point during that series, it's because Rudy does everything. Favors, Jae, Rubio and younger Jingles were complete nonfactors. I'm so thankful we have Rudy or we would have to play handball or something.

I'm more self aware now. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Enjoy your day.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

All teams have injuries. The Nuggets have been without their 2nd best player all season and their 3rd best player most of the season, and they still managed to have a nearly identical record to ours, we only won one more game than them. The Suns went 11-4 this year without Chris Paul, the Grizzlies went 20-4 without Ja. Teams very rarely make deep playoff runs without an injury or two along the way. If we have to be completely healthy to win games, then we are in trouble in the post season.

On the other hand, we are completely healthy so we wouldn't be in trouble in the post season if we have to be completely healthy to win games. Though we did in fact win games with guys out with injury anywho. I simply said I wonder what our record would have been if our iron men were iron men again. If you want to read that as me saying that something wasn't fair or we are the only team that had injuries or that the nuggets and grizzlies were completely healthy all year and couldn't win if they did have injuries then you do you. I didn't say that though.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ingles was 6th man of the year runner up last year, had a historically great shooting season and was easily one of our best players in the Clippers series.

Ya I acknowledged that when I posted "You do make a good point about Jingles. He had a really good year for us last year. I do think his lack of athleticism hurt us defensively though."
Then the 21-22 season hit and he started to die..... career worst from the field, career worst from 3, second worst year of his career rebounding, one of his worst years assisting, career worst in steals, one of his worst years in ppg. He was really bad this season.