Joe Rogan's Podcast

[Douchebag K]

People keep saying stuff like this, and it's like... That's our end goal? Just to end freedom? Really? Like, no higher purpose? It's just the most idiotic bull**** I keep hearing repeated.

But people think this one is special, just because it's new. You're used to seatbelt laws, and helmet laws, and school vaccinations laws, and speeding laws, and restaurant health codes, and even requirements as to which side of the road you drive on. So why is this one so different? Just because it's new and there's such a furor about it, that's the only reason. It's not more restrictive than any of the ones I mentioned.

dude whether it's rational or not people see this one as different because it hasn't gone through extensive longer term studies to monitor for long term effects, there are distinct albeit thankfully not too common side effects that can be very serious and you're talking about a virus that for the majority of people is not that serious and wildly disproportionately affects the eldery, the unwell and the overweight/metabolically challenged.

The first edict of medicine is first do no harm so young healthy people not wanting to risk taking something that has a 1 in 50,000 chance of giving them myocarditis isn't irrational. Mandating something in this situation is a slippery slope and comparing this to seatbelts, all the childhood diseases, polio etc is just a little silly at best and disingenuous at worst.

 

[One Brow]

Sure. Would you like to discuss my vaccine passport (which I do have). You don't have them in Utah yet but it is likely only a matter of time. If you are curious, it is a QR code. It scans to a state run database to verify that I have been vaccinated before I am allowed to enter a venue that seats more than 5,000 people.

Not a federal mandate.

BTW, I live in Illinois.

Would you like to discus the only reason my kid isn't yet being compelled to be vaccinated before December 20 is that the Pfizer vaccine isn't yet authorized for 8 year old kids.

Meanwhile, your kid is required to be vaccinated for measles, mumps, rubella, meningitis, likely chickenpox, and a few others that come to mind. Requiring covid`19 vaccinations is not a greater imposition than any of these.

If you think this is temporary to get through an emergency and if only the people would go get vaxed this could all go back to normal, I can tell you that I don't see that in your future. It won't matter if everyone is 100% vaccinated.

You're saying our future is that everyone will have to be PCR tested every other week or so? The horror!

 

[One Brow]

You're a good soldier. Since you're so eager to let people stick things inside of you, is there a limit to what you'll allow on forced penetration? I'm real curious how much poking OB can take.

No one is being forced into vaccination.

However, I am indeed a patriot, and did my patriotic duty by getting vaccinated.

 

[One Brow]

dude whether it's rational or not people see this one as different because it hasn't gone through extensive longer term studies to monitor for long term effects, there are distinct albeit thankfully not too common side effects that can be very serious and you're talking about a virus that for the majority of people is not that serious and wildly disproportionately affects the eldery, the unwell and the overweight/metabolically challenged.

The first edict of medicine is first do no harm so young healthy people not wanting to risk taking something that has a 1 in 50,000 chance of giving them myocarditis isn't irrational. Mandating something in this situation is a slippery slope and comparing this to seatbelts, all the childhood diseases, polio etc is just a little silly at best and disingenuous at worst.

The other childhood vaccines have side effects so regularly that we actually have a special vaccine court that awards payments to suffers with a minimum of evidence and fuss required (much less than a standard court).

 

[Douchebag K]

The other childhood vaccines have side effects so regularly that we actually have a special vaccine court that awards payments to suffers with a minimum of evidence and fuss required (much less than a standard court).

Covid is barely a sniffle for healthy kids and there have been no medium to long term studies done on this "1/3 dose" type proposal. The risk/benefit is so far skewed against jabbing kids. The risk profile for Covid is so disproportionate according to age a uniform approach to vaccinating everyone ie healthy young kids is just stupid.

 

[Douchebag K]

No one is being forced into vaccination.

However, I am indeed a patriot, and did my patriotic duty by getting vaccinated.

well in the communist state of Victoria Australia we have just had a mandate that all active workers must be vaccinated. With no option of just being tested weekly.

 

[gandalfe]

Seatbelt laws: Not Federal, and not done via Executive Order
Helmet laws: Not Federal, not done via Executive Order, -AND- not universal (Illinois, Iowa, and New Hampshire do not have helmet laws)
School vaccination laws: Not Federal, not done via Executive Order, AND many allow either religious and/or philosophical exemptions.

Gandalfe, I see you as a well informed person but you did not name anything in American history that was even close to this Federal compulsion. This is different. In the powers being exercised by a single man, this is uncharted waters for our nation.

You're nitpicking, avoiding the main point, and you know it.

 

[NAOS]

It’s fascinating how some abstractions raise up to top of the discourse pile, and how this results in certain realities fading from view. Remember when our hospitals were overfilled and people were dying ALONE?

One of the most deluded aspects of our society stems from the fact that death is a mostly unknown and abstract thing. People don’t have experience or anything like a personally hewn perspective on it. And this makes it all the easier for the kind of discord we’re seeing. Get your head around death, and the experience of dying. Start from that spot, please.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fishonjazz]

Seatbelt laws: Not Federal, and not done via Executive Order
Helmet laws: Not Federal, not done via Executive Order, -AND- not universal (Illinois, Iowa, and New Hampshire do not have helmet laws)
School vaccination laws: Not Federal, not done via Executive Order, AND many allow either religious and/or philosophical exemptions.

Gandalfe, I see you as a well informed person but you did not name anything in American history that was even close to this Federal compulsion. This is different. In the powers being exercised by a single man, this is uncharted waters for our nation.

So basically if the state of Utah tells you that you have to get vaccinated the response is cool and yes sir. If the America tells you that you have to get vaccinated then it's taking away freedoms. Why do you hate America?

 

[fishonjazz]

Covid is barely a sniffle for healthy kids

This is untrue
Also, did you know that getting vaccinated makes a person less likely to get infected with covid and less likely to spread it to others?
Therefore if kids get vaccinated then less people are getting covid and less people are spreading it. That would mean less people getting sick, hospitalized, and dying.
(This is all pretty basic, obvious, common sense stuff that I shouldn't have to point out. But here we are)

 

[fishonjazz]

well in the communist state of Victoria Australia we have just had a mandate that all active workers must be vaccinated. With no option of just being tested weekly.

I'm glad Victoria cares about the lives of it's people so much. That's cool.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You're nitpicking, avoiding the main point, and you know it.

Not at all. The unprecedented amount of power being exercised by a single man *IS* what concerns me. Neither the big bad Delta variant nor the experimental vaccines worry me nearly as much as authoritarian government.

As a hat tip to One Brow, he did point out that current government actions aren’t entirely unprecedented in pointing to Wickard v. Filburn. Nearly all of that case has long since been overturned but it did come from a time where America did try to transform into the direction we once again seem headed.

Not only was the central government mandating how much grain farmers could grow as was decided in Wickard v Filbern by FDR’s handpicked Supreme Court, but the central government also mandated pricing. A tailor and cleaner named Jacob Maged was jailed for 30 days and fined for the crime of charging 35¢ cents to press a suit instead of the NRA mandated 40¢ cents.

It wasn’t just the centrally controlled economy but the government also constructed internment camps for those they didn’t trust. Some buildings at Manzanar where 120,000 Americans were incarcerated for no crime at all, are still standing.

The government also made it a crime to criticize the government. Walter Chaplinsky was arrested for calling a government official a “fascist”. The case went all the way to FDR’s handpicked Supreme Court in Chaplinksy v. New Hampshire who upheld the arrest, and now we technically have a “Fighting Words” exception to the First Amendment.

Maybe these intrusions on freedoms aren’t unprecedented, but at least FDR worked with a democrat majority House, democrat majority Senate, and a Supreme Court in which he picked 8 of the 9 justices. Biden has the House and Senate yet Executive Orders everything.

I am not a fan of central government intrusions on non-interstate business, not a fan of fighting words doctrine / hate speech laws, not a fan of shanty towns / homeless encampments, not a fan of internment / stay-at-home orders for citizens who have committed no crime, not a fan of the economic damage caused by politicians who think they can command an economy into vitality.

I am against government overstepping Constitutional bounds even in efforts that appear noble on the surface. It is the point, and I don’t think it is unfair to be concerned.

 

[One Brow]

As a hat tip to One Brow, he did point out that current government actions aren’t entirely unprecedented in pointing to Wickard v. Filburn. Nearly all of that case has long since been overturned but it did come from a time where America did try to transform into the direction we once again seem headed.

I would agree that these situations go back and forth. In times of war, pandemic, or other emergencies, we see the federal government pushing harder than we do in times peace, health, etc.

Last I heard, Biden could order that every male 18-55 be drafted, arrange for a special "vaccination corps" in the military, and vaccinate everyone that way. Compared to that, OSHA rules are mild.

 

[NAOS]

Not at all. The unprecedented amount of power being exercised by a single man *IS* what concerns me. Neither the big bad Delta variant nor the experimental vaccines worry me nearly as much as authoritarian government.

As a hat tip to One Brow, he did point out that current government actions aren’t entirely unprecedented in pointing to Wickard v. Filburn. Nearly all of that case has long since been overturned but it did come from a time where America did try to transform into the direction we once again seem headed.

Not only was the central government mandating how much grain farmers could grow as was decided in Wickard v Filbern by FDR’s handpicked Supreme Court, but the central government also mandated pricing. A tailor and cleaner named Jacob Maged was jailed for 30 days and fined for the crime of charging 35¢ cents to press a suit instead of the NRA mandated 40¢ cents.

It wasn’t just the centrally controlled economy but the government also constructed internment camps for those they didn’t trust. Some buildings at Manzanar where 120,000 Americans were incarcerated for no crime at all, are still standing.

The government also made it a crime to criticize the government. Walter Chaplinsky was arrested for calling a government official a “fascist”. The case went all the way to FDR’s handpicked Supreme Court in Chaplinksy v. New Hampshire who upheld the arrest, and now we technically have a “Fighting Words” exception to the First Amendment.

Maybe these intrusions on freedoms aren’t unprecedented, but at least FDR worked with a democrat majority House, democrat majority Senate, and a Supreme Court in which he picked 8 of the 9 justices. Biden has the House and Senate yet Executive Orders everything.

I am not a fan of central government intrusions on non-interstate business, not a fan of fighting words doctrine / hate speech laws, not a fan of shanty towns / homeless encampments, not a fan of internment / stay-at-home orders for citizens who have committed no crime, not a fan of the economic damage caused by politicians who think they can command an economy into vitality.

I am against government overstepping Constitutional bounds even in efforts that appear noble on the surface. It is the point, and I don’t think it is unfair to be concerned.

You seem to be a big fan of the era of “freedom” that corresponds to the era of deregulated capital. In other words, a fan of the American society that oversaw the meteoric rise of pretty much every climate-change inducing, planet-altering bollocks you can measure.


You see....... In any given discussion, someone can shift the focus of abstractions in multiple ways. You seem to think that, as far as Covid is concerned, you have the right abstractions and everyone else has their eye on the wrong things.

I think you’re wrong.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You seem to be a big fan of the era of “freedom” that corresponds to the era of deregulated capital. In other words, a fan of the American society that oversaw the meteoric rise of pretty much every climate-change inducing, planet-altering bollocks you can measure.

Yes I am, unapologetically. Take a look at any era of deregulated capital and compare where American life expectancy was at the beginning of the era versus where it was at the end. Take a look at American standard of living at the beginning of the era versus the American standard of living at the end. Take a look at what was happening in America versus what was happening in the less free parts of the world at that same time. America has been the engine driving the world forward and everyone, including those who hate us, has been riding on our coattails. If the prosperity created from American freedom came at the price of increasing CO2 in Earth atmosphere by 0.01% then I do not have even 0.01% regret.

 

[Douchebag K]

This is untrue
Also, did you know that getting vaccinated makes a person less likely to get infected with covid and less likely to spread it to others?
Therefore if kids get vaccinated then less people are getting covid and less people are spreading it. That would mean less people getting sick, hospitalized, and dying.
(This is all pretty basic, obvious, common sense stuff that I shouldn't have to point out. But here we are)

I’m sorry dude you are just wrong. Every virologist, general practitioner, medical specialist I’ve heard interviewed and papers I’ve read absolutely say that. I don’t know who you’re listening to but healthy non-overweight kids Covid is not a threat at all.

And define *less likely ?? Exactly. With references. And the effect over time of such boosted protection.

Each to their own but I think using kids to try to achieve herd immunity is insane. Kids future should always be the priority and the simple fact is there are no long term studies on any potential effects on kids from these vaccines. And there are uncommon but serious reactions.

 

[Douchebag K]

I'm glad Victoria cares about the lives of it's people so much. That's cool.

Lol you have no idea mate. Seriously. We’ve been in harsh lockdown including curfews for the most days anywhere in the world. All in the name of trying to maintain Zero or close to zero Covid cases. Our youth suicides, bankruptcies and lives destroyed by lockdowns have gone so far past any loss of life from Covid it’s ridiculous. Under state of emergency legislation we legally have no right for protest and any protest marches have been met with frightening police brutality including shooting peacefully protesting unarmed citizens with rubber bullets.

So care about it’s citizens ??? Laughable. This is all about control and abusing its citizens to achieve an outcome regardless of the damage caused by a corrupt tyrant. Don’t ****ing talk to me about this dickhead caring about people

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m sorry dude you are just wrong. Every virologist, general practitioner, medical specialist I’ve heard interviewed and papers I’ve read absolutely say that. I don’t know who you’re listening to but healthy non-overweight kids Covid is not a threat at all.

And define *less likely ?? Exactly. With references. And the effect over time of such boosted protection.

Each to their own but I think using kids to try to achieve herd immunity is insane. Kids future should always be the priority and the simple fact is there are no long term studies on any potential effects on kids from these vaccines. And there are uncommon but serious reactions.

I'm not wrong. There have been healthy kids in the hospital with covid. That's just a fact.
Less likely is pretty easy to define. If someone who is vaccinated is in the area of someone with covid they are less likely to get infected with covid than someone who is unvaccinated.

We have been immunizing children for a long time. You might think it's insane but it's been happening for decades.

 

[fishonjazz]

Lol you have no idea mate. Seriously. We’ve been in harsh lockdown including curfews for the most days anywhere in the world. All in the name of trying to maintain Zero or close to zero Covid cases. Our youth suicides, bankruptcies and lives destroyed by lockdowns have gone so far past any loss of life from Covid it’s ridiculous. Under state of emergency legislation we legally have no right for protest and any protest marches have been met with frightening police brutality including shooting peacefully protesting unarmed citizens with rubber bullets.

So care about it’s citizens ??? Laughable. This is all about control and abusing its citizens to achieve an outcome regardless of the damage caused by a corrupt tyrant. Don’t ****ing talk to me about this dickhead caring about people

What is the outcome the corrupt tyrant is trying to achieve?