underdog
Well-Known Member
How was Clayton from your view? He looks like a gamer.
Game Thread Jul 08, 2025 07:00pm: Thunder Vs Jazz (Summer League)
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Added to Calendar: 07-08-25
Basketball Novice
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Man, I agree with you, but you just might lose Collier completely if you start a rookie over him. Then again, that's just basketball. He should have played better if he wanted to secure his starting spot. Regardless, I don't think Hardy has the fortitude to bench Collier and start WCJ from the jump.
//r00t 4 Jazz
Well-Known Member
WCJ's handle is going to keep him from starting, atleast to start the season and barring injuries.
But Collier, for me, had the most disappointing SLC Summer league. Felt like he was in his own head way too much.
Thankfully there's still the Vegas summer league.
But Collier, for me, had the most disappointing SLC Summer league. Felt like he was in his own head way too much.
Thankfully there's still the Vegas summer league.
I'll admit that I haven't watched yet and was only able to glance at the box score occasionally, but it's a little hard for me to see how Clayton gets so much love after finishing with starters' low +/- and a 5 for 14 shooting night (at one time, it was 2 for 11, wasn't it?). He finished with same number of turnovers and fewer assists than Collier.
I could be totally misguided since I didn't actually see this game yet (though I've seen the other two). I like some things about Clayton, but he's not shown me that he's great against pressure at this point and generally his shot hasn't gone in at a good rate (yet). He seems to be at best a game manager type at PG, with upside as a great shooting game manager. And while I like his effort on defense, he's clearly small. All this is perfectly fine for a #18 pick. But I don't see the clear starting PG of the future (or even necessarily this coming season) for the Jazz.
I could be totally misguided since I didn't actually see this game yet (though I've seen the other two). I like some things about Clayton, but he's not shown me that he's great against pressure at this point and generally his shot hasn't gone in at a good rate (yet). He seems to be at best a game manager type at PG, with upside as a great shooting game manager. And while I like his effort on defense, he's clearly small. All this is perfectly fine for a #18 pick. But I don't see the clear starting PG of the future (or even necessarily this coming season) for the Jazz.
If he checks out - whatever. He's not the long-term answer at PG anyways. At that point he has to decide to be a pro, lock in, and go earn a second contract somewhere if it's not in Utah.
No bias against him. I'm a USC alum and was pumped as hell when he came in. But he was the #1 prospect in just a bizarrely bad HS class and went #29 in an equally bad draft class for a clear reason.
He's also still so young, which we have to remember. WCJ may be a rookie, but he's 22, a 4-year college guy, and was the clear-cut alpha dog on the team that won it all last March. In terms of maturity he may be more of a "pro" than Collier or even Keyonte at this point.
I think a "great shooting game manager" is exactly who he is.
I wouldn't worry about the shooting. His stroke is pure butter.
I worry a bit, until he proves me wrong, just because of his size. It's not clear that he'll be able to get his shots against NBA defenders.
The Jazz Wonderbra
Well-Known Member
I havent been seeing Harkless as a difference maker but ai focused in on him on D and I have to concur. He earned a spot imho.
Walter Clayton Jr reminds me a bit of Scottie Pippen Jr from last summer league.
Walter Clayton Jr reminds me a bit of Scottie Pippen Jr from last summer league.
Basketball Novice
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WCJ had his struggles this game, for sure, but I liked how he moved the ball and the shooting came on later in the game. When WCJ is in, the ball is moving, and he is making moves off ball, screening or cutting, relocating. When he has the ball, he advances it up the court to players ahead instead of keeping it. The ball doesn't stick. I'll be watching future summer league games to see if my opinion changes but that's how I see it now. The process with him looks great and once he gets used to the speed and the shots start falling, he will be the best guard on the team. To be frank, he might already be the best guard on the team.
Collier, I am just not sure on. Perhaps he has been pressing a bit in this summer league which has led to some subpar performances. He does these drives with no plan where he just runs into defenders and loses the ball. Sometimes he can get out of them with shot attempts or passes. Just felt a bit out of control at times. He also has the occasional wild passes. I don't know, he just felt off. Maybe someone else with more knowledge can describe it in more eloquent terms. But he also had moments where he was playing well.
I understand that concern and he'll have to prove it.
I'm not saying he's Steph Curry - nobody will ever be Steph Curry - but his combine measurements were damn near identical. And I would argue that at the college level, his ability to create space / get his shot off was even better than his pure shooting ability. He is Steph-esque in that regard.
Talk to others, tho. I am President of the WCJ fanboy club. You won't get an objective opinion here.
I predicted he would start for 10 games before wCJ takes over..
I think that’s gonna come down now he way things are trending…
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Nah. I’m pretty high on WCJ too, but I think Collier starts most (if not all) of this year. As long as they’re competing and working hard, I could care less which guy starts and which guy finishes. The results are out on the court. May the best PG play.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Ok. Harkless is a dog. I’m sold. Convert his contract and let him harass guys. At the very least, his defensive intensity should help the other guards in practice.
Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
I’m with you pal! To me this is all crazy talk concerning WCJ taking Collier’s starting Job at point. Can’t believe some folks were even watching the same game. Honestly, I was thinking that both Springer and Harkless fared better than Walt Lake City. Kid’s got absolutely zero explosion (haven’t seen him beat anybody off the dribble) and he doesn’t have the height, girth or strength of Collier either. Even his shot selection is suspect. Collier was just being accommodating playing off-ball. Of course he couldn’t get any flow - just a weird pairing actually.
Well I’m predicting WCJ will be the better point guard, hence he will start.
Well your username and avatar is at stake.. lol..
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
Everyone is reading too much into summer league performance. What happens in summer league stays in summer league.
We know what Collier can do. Can't stress about how he's played in these games.
The one takeaway we have from SLC Summer League is that we're lucky Bailey fell to us. Dude is going to be a stud.
We know what Collier can do. Can't stress about how he's played in these games.
The one takeaway we have from SLC Summer League is that we're lucky Bailey fell to us. Dude is going to be a stud.
Isaiah 1:13
Well-Known Member
We’ll see about that. I imagine that Will and Ace and possibly Keyonte will have something to say about that. Collier was the top High School recruit in the Country, WCJ was just the tournament sweetheart in his Senior year.
Yep and I’m a pretty good judge of talent and ability! Truth is, I love the guy whether he starts or comes off the bench! In my mind, and Aces, he’s twice the player WCJ is.
Jazz Fusion
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Basketball Novice
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Part of this is I just have higher expectations for 2nd/3rd year guys. I wanted Collier, Brice, and Flip to dominate the competition and show improvement with the issues they had during their rookie years. All 3 have played very good at times yet I come away from these 3 games underwhelmed at what they have shown. Brice has shown great shooting but also has decision and turnover problems still, Collier has been inconsistent overall and Flip, while good, still feels outmatched at Center. All 3 of these guys are going to get 25+ minutes a game this season and might even start. I don't think I am asking too much of these guys to prove their worth against rookies and fringe guys.