Keyonte George’s Star Ascension

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not trying to tear him down but there was a dj & pk after Hayward had left that Locke basically admits it was a jazz pr thing and that his numbers were strongly influenced by having Gobert behind him. My source is “trust me bro” as I can’t find the audio now. But I think it’s easier to admit those things after your guy leaves and there was some selfish motivation in that Locke was gassing Gobert.

MAybe they PRd him and talked it up, but either way he was good at defense

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Can the opposite also be true when you have nurk and love holding down the fort???

No.

This team generally sucks at defense, but when Keyonte is on the court, it sucks a lot more. You cannot get around that. His individual defensive impact on the Jazz is overwhelmingly negative.

I have no idea why people are fighting the facts. This isn't some slight difference of opinion.

Find any type of analytics, any metric that measures defensive impact among current rotation players, and you will always find Keyonte at the bottom of the barrel. I wish I was joking.

On the whole, the entire Jazz backcourt is a disaster on D and cannot stop anyone. The fact that Hardy's schemes aren't exactly geared towards clamping down on perimeter shooters doesn't mean that the players are absolved of all defensive responsibility.

We can win when the opponent has a terrible shooting night, Lauri & Key get to their averages and someone else has a good scoring game. That's basically it.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

No.

This team generally sucks at defense, but when Keyonte is on the court, it sucks a lot more. You cannot get around that. His individual defensive impact on the Jazz is overwhelmingly negative.

I have no idea why people are fighting the facts. This isn't some slight difference of opinion.

Find any type of analytics, any metric that measures defensive impact among current rotation players, and you will always find Keyonte at the bottom of the barrel. I wish I was joking.

On the whole, the entire Jazz backcourt is a disaster on D and cannot stop anyone. The fact that Hardy's schemes aren't exactly geared towards clamping down on perimeter shooters doesn't mean that the players are absolved of all defensive responsibility.

We can win when the opponent has a terrible shooting night, Lauri & Key get to their averages and someone else has a good scoring game. That's basically it.

still laughing about your "Estimated" versus "Actual" mistake, the way you doubled down on it, and your lack of acknowledging your error.

 

[jazznik]

Here are the third year stats:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 22.9 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.0 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 44% - 34% - 91% shooting.

And Mitchell's stats declined after the hot start, while Keyonte keeps improving his PPG, RPG and shooting percentages every month.

They're the same picture. Their stats would be very, very similar after the end of the season.

Updated:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 24.2 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.2 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 90% shooting.

Their stats are absolutely identical with one exception: Keyonte has way more assists.

 

[HeatCheck]

Updated:

Donovan Mitchell: 24.0 PPG, 4.3 APG, 4.4 RPG, 1.0 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 86% shooting.
Keyonte (so far): 24.2 PPG, 6.8 APG, 4.2 RPG, 0.9 SPG, on the 45% - 37% - 90% shooting.

Their stats are absolutely identical with one exception: Keyonte has way more assists.

The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated worse than Key defensively.

FWIW I do see that both Simons and Sexton (-0.71) have improved defensively being on different teams this season so it's very possible some of the ratings can be attributed to just playing on a lousy Jazz defensive team.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated lower than Key defensively.

FWIW I do see that both Simons and Sexton (-0.71) have improved defensively being on different teams this season so it's very possible some of the ratings can be attributed to just playing on a lousy Jazz defensive team.

Yeah, Don made more effort after leaving the Jazz. Kinda pisses me off tbh.

 

[jazznik]

The other difference is that defensively Keyonte is #500 out of the 503 players rated by Lebron defensive stats so far this season at -2.07. Worse than Trae Young, Jordan Poole, Zach Lavine types. In his defense our other players such as Lauri (-1.83) and Ace (-1.32) aren't faring much better with defensive ratings. Donovan Mitchell is rated -0.76 which isn't great but still rates out much better than Keyonte. CJ McCollum and Bub Carrington are the only other regular rotation guys rated lower than Key defensively.

Is it one of those statistics that are heavily dependent on the team performance, like DRTG? Because in that case all players on a bad defensive team will be bad and all players on a good defensive team will be at the top of the rankings.

Also, I was comparing the third-year stats of Mitchell and Keyonte and not their 25/26 stats. Mitchell has been pretty bad defensively in his third year.

 

[HeatCheck]

Is it one of those statistics that are heavily dependent on the team performance, like DRTG? Because in that case all players on a bad defensive team will be bad and all players on a good defensive team will be at the top of the rankings.

LEBRON evaluates a player’s contributions using the box score and advanced on/off calculations for evaluation of player impact per 100 possessions on-court.

Home - Basketball Index

www.bball-index.com

 

[jazznik]

I think it is pretty clear that Keyonte by year 3 is a much better offensive player than Mitchell: he is able to produce the exact same amount of points on the same splits and he is doing it without any good veteran players setting him up. Mitchell in his 3rd year had Ingles and Conley. And, on top of that, Keyonte is the leading playmaker on the team, while Mitchell was only the 3rd in APG.

Keyonte is clearly and firmly on the All Star trajectory. He would be an All Star this year (as Mitchell became in Year 3 with the identical stats) had he played on a veteran team instead of the perpetually rebuilding Jazz.

 

[jazznik]

LEBRON evaluates a player’s contributions using the box score and advanced on/off calculations for evaluation of player impact per 100 possessions on-court.

Home - Basketball Index

www.bball-index.com

It does not matter how it evaluates players: if all top players come from the top teams and all bottom players - from the rebuilding ones then this stat is heavily biased to the team's combined performance.

 

[HeatCheck]

Most NBA front offices use advanced stats such as LEBRON. All I can say is even by the eye test Keyonte is a very bad defender. I'm still a fan but his play on that end of the court should absolutely be a consideration when handing out his next contract.