Langi Drama

[colton]

Could someone explain the legalities? What happens if Whit doesn't agree? Does that mean he can't transfer, or just that he has to sit out an extra year, or what? Also, I know that when players transfer schools they have to sit out a year... But he had just sat out two years so why wouldn't that count? I guess I'm mainly just confused as to why Whit would have to agree to anything.

Also, I think in the system where coaches can leave at the drop of a hat and where players' scholarships are only guaranteed year to year, the whole idea of making players sit out a year when transferring is ludicrous. But I suppose that's a different discussion.

Ok, I find this article which did a pretty good job of explaining things.
https://www.slate.com/articles/spor..._block_their_former_players_from_getting.html

And it verifies how ludicrous the whole situation in the NCAA is.

But regarding this issue, it seems like without Whit's signature he can still transfer, he would just have to pay his own way for a year. And sit out, of course. Since BYU is a pretty inexpensive university, that is probably what he would do. Seems pretty vindictive on Whit's part, though, if it comes to that.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Ok, I find this article which did a pretty good job of explaining things.
https://www.slate.com/articles/spor..._block_their_former_players_from_getting.html

And it verifies how ludicrous the whole situation in the NCAA is.

But regarding this issue, it seems like without Whit's signature he can still transfer, he would just have to pay his own way for a year. And sit out, of course. Since BYU is a pretty inexpensive university, that is probably what he would do. Seems pretty vindictive on Whit's part, though, if it comes to that.

Don't cross Whit.

Langi will probably wake up with a horse head in his bed or something, his mom's alumni benefits taken away, forced into the witness protection program or something.

 

[colton]

But regarding this issue, it seems like without Whit's signature he can still transfer, he would just have to pay his own way for a year. And sit out, of course. Since BYU is a pretty inexpensive university, that is probably what he would do. Seems pretty vindictive on Whit's part, though, if it comes to that.

According to DJ and PK this morning, I got it wrong. They said that since BYU is independent, there isn't the typical "sit out for a year" rule that there normally would be. That was news to me. So now I'm back to wondering about Whit's signature. Are the options (a) Whit signs, and Langi plays for BYU this Fall vs (b) Whit doesn't sign, and Langi plays for BYU this Fall but doesn't get a scholarship until next year? Or am I not even close? Anyone know?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

This story will gain a lot of traction because it's Utah- BYU, but in reality it's much to do about nothing. I was thrilled when Langi chose Utah but immediately became a little apprehensive when he couldn't crack the regular running back rotation as a freshman. When he did get the ball, he looked rather pedestrian. If he was returning to Utah as a RB, he'd probably be sitting at #3 or 4 on the depth chart and if he was moved to the defensive side of the ball, it sounds like he would find himself in a similar position.

I'm somewhat bugged by the involvement by the mission president. If what I'm reading is true, he's a guy who lives in Provo and has a child playing athletics @BYU. It most certainly makes it look like BYU used Langi's mission as a 2 year extended recruiting window which is in poor taste for several reasons. But at the end of the day, I can't really bring myself to care.

While I think Utah should just let him go, I do understand Whit's point of view. While some say it makes him look small/bitter, I can understand that he probably doesn't want to simply roll over and show future LDS recruits that transferring to BYU after a mission is going to be a cake walk.

In reading Langi's quotes about why he wants to make the move, he never mentions anything that leads me to believe the guy is ultra passionate about returning to the game of football (which is fine btw). It sounds like he is more interested in surrounding himself with like-minded individuals for spiritual reasons.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

While I think Utah should just let him go, I do understand Whit's point of view. While some say it makes him look small/bitter, I can understand that he probably doesn't want to simply roll over and show future LDS recruits that transferring to BYU after a mission is going to be a cake walk.

In reading Langi's quotes about why he wants to make the move, he never mentions anything that leads me to believe the guy is ultra passionate about returning to the game of football (which is fine btw). It sounds like he is more interested in surrounding himself with like-minded individuals for spiritual reasons.

To me that's a backward way of keeping players at Utah. You don't want to keep players that want to be somewhere else by basically forcing them to stay. You want to motivate players to want to be there and make it a good experience. Trying to force Langi to stay not only is validating his reasons to leave, but setting a bad precedent of negative "motivation"/fear/barbed arrow" type stuff. It shows he's not as interested in the players themselves as a coach should be. If he truly does things to help the players no matter what he will earn respect and players will stay out of a desire to stay and loyalty rather than a fear of exit wounds.

/2cents

 

[fishonjazz]

This story will gain a lot of traction because it's Utah- BYU, but in reality it's much to do about nothing. I was thrilled when Langi chose Utah but immediately became a little apprehensive when he couldn't crack the regular running back rotation as a freshman. When he did get the ball, he looked rather pedestrian. If he was returning to Utah as a RB, he'd probably be sitting at #3 or 4 on the depth chart and if he was moved to the defensive side of the ball, it sounds like he would find himself in a similar position.

I'm somewhat bugged by the involvement by the mission president. If what I'm reading is true, he's a guy who lives in Provo and has a child playing athletics @BYU. It most certainly makes it look like BYU used Langi's mission as a 2 year extended recruiting window which is in poor taste for several reasons. But at the end of the day, I can't really bring myself to care.

While I think Utah should just let him go, I do understand Whit's point of view. While some say it makes him look small/bitter, I can understand that he probably doesn't want to simply roll over and show future LDS recruits that transferring to BYU after a mission is going to be a cake walk.

In reading Langi's quotes about why he wants to make the move, he never mentions anything that leads me to believe the guy is ultra passionate about returning to the game of football (which is fine btw). It sounds like he is more interested in surrounding himself with like-minded individuals for spiritual reasons.

Good post

 

[colton]

This story will gain a lot of traction because it's Utah- BYU, but in reality it's much to do about nothing. I was thrilled when Langi chose Utah but immediately became a little apprehensive when he couldn't crack the regular running back rotation as a freshman. When he did get the ball, he looked rather pedestrian. If he was returning to Utah as a RB, he'd probably be sitting at #3 or 4 on the depth chart and if he was moved to the defensive side of the ball, it sounds like he would find himself in a similar position.

Agreed, and it sounds like he'll be in a similar position on the depth chart at BYU.

I'm somewhat bugged by the involvement by the mission president. If what I'm reading is true, he's a guy who lives in Provo and has a child playing athletics @BYU. It most certainly makes it look like BYU used Langi's mission as a 2 year extended recruiting window which is in poor taste for several reasons. But at the end of the day, I can't really bring myself to care.

You know the mission president is a U of U alum, right? I don't see him as having done any recruiting for BYU. I think the kid asked him if he could make some calls for him, since the missionaries aren't allowed to call schools themselves. Doesn't seem like a big deal.

While I think Utah should just let him go, I do understand Whit's point of view. While some say it makes him look small/bitter, I can understand that he probably doesn't want to simply roll over and show future LDS recruits that transferring to BYU after a mission is going to be a cake walk.

It does make Whit look small, and hopefully he changes his mind... but I blame the stupid NCAA rules much more than I blame Whit.

In reading Langi's quotes about why he wants to make the move, he never mentions anything that leads me to believe the guy is ultra passionate about returning to the game of football (which is fine btw). It sounds like he is more interested in surrounding himself with like-minded individuals for spiritual reasons.

Yes, that's the way it sounds like to me as well. Reading between the lines it sounds like Langi may have made some poor choices before his mission and he feels a new location will help him avoid going back into his old habits.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

According to DJ and PK this morning, I got it wrong. They said that since BYU is independent, there isn't the typical "sit out for a year" rule that there normally would be. That was news to me. So now I'm back to wondering about Whit's signature. Are the options (a) Whit signs, and Langi plays for BYU this Fall vs (b) Whit doesn't sign, and Langi plays for BYU this Fall but doesn't get a scholarship until next year? Or am I not even close? Anyone know?

I read this today, I'm not sure if it changes the whole scholarship issue.

The Salt Lake Tribune learned Tuesday that Langi did not sign a national letter of intent while at the U., due to his being an early enrollee in January 2011. He thus becomes an unrestricted student-athlete because NLIs are a component of so-called "Riley Nelson rule" that governs recruitment of LDS missionaries who first attended another school. Multiple exceptions, including a two-year nonparticipation exception, could allow Langi to return to the field at another school this season.

Link

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Colton,

I do think the mission president thing is extremely shady. Maybe he didn't actively recruit Langi to BYU, but when Langi asked him to do the footwork for him, the only ethical thing he could have done is recuse himself from the matter. He put himself in a position in which he had to inquire with BYU to see if there was interest in Langi as well as contacting Utah informing them of Langi's intentions. Should mission presidents take on the responsibility of facilitating post mission college transfers? We both know the answer to that question.

As far a K-Whit goes, what is he supposed to do? I'm happy he's showing a little backbone even though the transfer is basically inevitable at this point. Is he supposed to sit back and smile knowing full well that his in-state rival poached a mission kid? My guess is that he's already resigned to losing Langi to BYU but wants to make it as difficult/uncomfortable as possible. And guess what, he's 100% correct. Silent compliance on this will only encourage this type of behavior in the future.

 

[colton]

I do think the mission president thing is extremely shady. Maybe he didn't actively recruit Langi to BYU, but when Langi asked him to do the footwork for him, the only ethical thing he could have done is recuse himself from the matter.

Why was that the only ethical thing to do? I'm just not seeing it.

He put himself in a position in which he had to inquire with BYU to see if there was interest in Langi as well as contacting Utah informing them of Langi's intentions. Should mission presidents take on the responsibility of facilitating post mission college transfers? We both know the answer to that question.

I know *your* answer to that question, but I don't really have a strong opinion. I suspect it's not unusual for them to help out missionaries with things like that from time to time. My dad was a mission president, though, so I'll ask him what he thinks, and if he ever did anything along the lines of helping missionaries change colleges. I'll let you know what he says.

edit: from this article, https://www.deseretnews.com/article...ter-returning-from-LDS-mission-this-week.html, the mission president is quoted as saying, "Frankly, it isn't that unusual for mission presidents to help missionaries with applications, transcripts, ecclesiastic endorsements and yes, even transfers." That verifies my suspicions. But I'll let you know what my dad says (I sent him an email).

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

As if we didn't already know.

One of your laziest posts.... which is really saying something.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Why was that the only ethical thing to do? I'm just not seeing it.



I know *your* answer to that question, but I don't really have a strong opinion. I suspect it's not unusual for them to help out missionaries with things like that from time to time. My dad was a mission president, though, so I'll ask him what he thinks, and if he ever did anything along the lines of helping missionaries change colleges. I'll let you know what he says.

edit: from this article, https://www.deseretnews.com/article...ter-returning-from-LDS-mission-this-week.html, the mission president is quoted as saying, "Frankly, it isn't that unusual for mission presidents to help missionaries with applications, transcripts, ecclesiastic endorsements and yes, even transfers." That verifies my suspicions. But I'll let you know what my dad says (I sent him an email).

We'll agree to disagree. Regardless of what is considered "the norm" within the LDS faith in regards to this specific issue, I think mission presidents getting involved on facilitating an athletes transfer to the church owned university is poor form.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

We'll agree to disagree. Regardless of what is considered "the norm" within the LDS faith in regards to this specific issue, I think mission presidents getting involved on facilitating an athletes transfer to the church owned university is poor form.

But if they helped a missionary contact the schools in a transfer from Navy to UCLA it would be fine because it's not a church owned university? Am I seeing this the way you meant to say it?

 

[TroutBum]

One of your laziest posts.... which is really saying something.

Come on, I put a good two or three minutes into that sucker. U just MAD bro.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

But if they helped a missionary contact the schools in a transfer from Navy to UCLA it would be fine because it's not a church owned university? Am I seeing this the way you meant to say it?

You are seeing it correctly. First of all, just my opinion, but I don't think it looks proper at all for a mission president to help facilitate an athletic transfer of a soon to be former missionary in almost any instance. It looks extra dubious when a president facilitates an athletic transfer to BYU. Like it or not, that is almost always going to lead to speculation about BYU being involved in recruiting players while on missions, ulterior motives by the mission prez, etc. To be quite honest, how could it not?

That being said, it's a private religion and a private school. If the LDS church and BYU football want to have a system in place that helps shuffle kids away from their original school in favor of landing at BYU post mission, who cares how it looks? They only have themselves to answer to and the explanation will be nice and tidy.

 

[colton]

I know *your* answer to that question, but I don't really have a strong opinion. I suspect it's not unusual for them to help out missionaries with things like that from time to time. My dad was a mission president, though, so I'll ask him what he thinks, and if he ever did anything along the lines of helping missionaries change colleges. I'll let you know what he says.

edit: from this article, https://www.deseretnews.com/article...ter-returning-from-LDS-mission-this-week.html, the mission president is quoted as saying, "Frankly, it isn't that unusual for mission presidents to help missionaries with applications, transcripts, ecclesiastic endorsements and yes, even transfers." That verifies my suspicions. But I'll let you know what my dad says (I sent him an email).

My email to my dad apparently went astray, but I finally got an answer. He wrote:

In response to your question about “what would I have done about a request from one of my missionaries in such a situation?”, the mission president's statement was correct. Mission presidents do send recommendations, and they are used as sources for applications and advice on education, family issues and yes even (not frequently) on “girl friend” situations.

Reading the most recent articles it appears that his mission president assisted Langi in determining if and how changing from the U to the BYU were a possibility for him. This is something that Langi couldn’t do “within the normal rules of correspondence” for missionaries to keep focused on the Lord’s work. It probably came up during one of the mission president's interviews where, like I did, he asked what Elder Langi’s plans were following his mission.

Personally, I probably would have helped answer his request for assistance by contacting the Y.

I not only advised missionaries about their future, I had a senior sister who was a trained social worker counsel the Cambodian missionaries about educational opportunities available to them upon their release. This started about one month before their release in order for enrollment, requests for monetary assistance through the Perpetual Education Fund, etc., to be done. I also wrote a letter of recommendation for one of the U.S. Elders to a Wyoming College where he hoped to get a basketball scholarship.

So it seems like my dad's agreeing with the mission president who indicated that helping out with this type of thing was not unusual in the least. If the mission president himself had tried to persuade Langi to switch from the U to the Y, then I can see a problem. But I don't see any issue at all with the mission president helping out with some legwork once Langi told him he wanted to transfer, just as he would have done with any non-football playing missionaries who needed help. As my dad said, the missionaries themselves are not able to do that type of thing, given their strict correspondence rules.

 

[Qman]

My email to my dad apparently went astray, but I finally got an answer. He wrote:



So it seems like my dad's agreeing with the mission president who indicated that helping out with this type of thing was not unusual in the least. If the mission president himself had tried to persuade Langi to switch from the U to the Y, then I can see a problem. But I don't see any issue at all with the mission president helping out with some legwork once Langi told him he wanted to transfer, just as he would have done with any non-football playing missionaries who needed help. As my dad said, the missionaries themselves are not able to do that type of thing, given their strict correspondence rules.

This jives with my experience and those I have spoken with.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Am I wrong to suggest that when it comes to a mission president helping a previously committed athlete reverse course and transfer to BYU, they are opening themselves, the church and the BYU coaching staff to some serious allegations and scrutiny? I understand that it's not legwork that a missionary can do on his own during his mission, but is it too novel of an idea to suggest that the right thing to do is let Langi get home from his mission first before contacting BYU about possible interest, and also get together with Whit for a sit down upon his return?

There's new rumors starting to swirl that an even "bigger" LDS recruit will be transferring to BYU upon returning from his mission. I have yet to hear a name, and this is speculation on my part, but I immediately thought of Chase Hansen. The more this happens, the harder I find it to believe that BYU and potential transfers are not sending out "feelers" back and forth through church personel during mission time. I realize it's just an accusation on my part, but common sense would dictate that these things just don't magically happen without some backroom dealing.

 

[bigb]

Am I wrong to suggest that when it comes to a mission president helping a previously committed athlete reverse course and transfer to BYU, they are opening themselves, the church and the BYU coaching staff to some serious allegations and scrutiny? I understand that it's not legwork that a missionary can do on his own during his mission, but is it too novel of an idea to suggest that the right thing to do is let Langi get home from his mission first before contacting BYU about possible interest, and also get together with Whit for a sit down upon his return?

There's new rumors starting to swirl that an even "bigger" LDS recruit will be transferring to BYU upon returning from his mission. I have yet to hear a name, and this is speculation on my part, but I immediately thought of Chase Hansen. The more this happens, the harder I find it to believe that BYU and potential transfers are not sending out "feelers" back and forth through church personel during mission time. I realize it's just an accusation on my part, but common sense would dictate that these things just don't magically happen without some backroom dealing.

I can totally understand where you are coming from. Yes, it could appear that way. However, I choose to take the BYU coaching staff (and Utah's as well, since they claim it as well) that they don't actively recruit missionaries. Maybe that's me being a naive optimist?
I also could see where these athletes are suddenly wanting to be around the church standards 24/7 post-mission. After living that for 2 years, it kind of becomes part of your being.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I can totally understand where you are coming from. Yes, it could appear that way. However, I choose to take the BYU coaching staff (and Utah's as well, since they claim it as well) that they don't actively recruit missionaries. Maybe that's me being a naive optimist?
I also could see where these athletes are suddenly wanting to be around the church standards 24/7 post-mission. After living that for 2 years, it kind of becomes part of your being.

I get all that, and in the end, even if a kid does get recruited by BYU on his mission, it's just best to let him go on his way and follow his path. I do believe there was some shady stuff involved with BYU and Riley Nelson's dad during Riley's mission but in the end, BYU got what they deserved which was, well, Riley Nelson. These things tend to even out.