Looking for a new team

[fishonjazz]

I'd put LeBron as drafted. If any other team had drafted LeBron, I don't think he'd be in Cleveland.

The point is, the ONLY shot we have at a star is Exum
Or the draft. If Exum is a couple years away, lets maximize our chances at success and shoot for the draft.

And, as bad as Philly is, they have hope. Embiid might be in the summer league this year. They will get Simmons. They have Saric. They have Okafir. Between Okafor, Embiid and Simmons, they have three potential all stars.

We have Exum. Plus, they can attract free agents better than we can. Oh, and by the way, we've been to the playoffs as much as Philly since Deron left: once.

I think that philly has done the right thing.... As ugly as it has been.
They have had some bad luck. Noel injury, wiggins and parker being off the board when they pick and kat and russell being off the board too. Embiid always being hurt. The lottery has not been very kind to them. If things had worked out with ping pong balls that might have towns and wiggins instead of embiid and okafor.

They also have not drafted very well with the draft positions they did have. I think noel and mcw were not the best picks.

Overall I think their strategy has not been bad but the execution has not worked out. Maybe simmons is that home run pick and it all works out for them.


I agree with your plan for what the jazz should do but I'm just not as committed to it as you are and I'm too ready for the jazz to win and make the playoffs now. I have decent patience (I have been pretty optimistic for a while now while we have been losing) but it would be tough for me to see us gut the team and start over.

I'm hoping that we can use the combo we have of really good but not great players, cap space, young untapped potential with our young guys, and tons of draft picks to acquire the star that we both believe the jazz need.

Im thinking they might be able to do it without gutting the team. That's my preference.

 

[green]

Millsap and Jefferson leaving opened up the salary dump trade from Golden State in which we brought in Rodney Hood, Shelvin Mack, 2017 unprotected pick, and 2016 and 2017 2nd round picks. Hardly nothing.

Wow. We let two borderline All Stars walk so we could get Hood an average NBA starter? And a bunch of late draft picks that will turn into...

DL didn't draft Kanter did he? I don't think it's necessarily his fault to see that Kanter has talent and put faith in his new coach to develop him and keep him as a core piece. It didn't work and Kanter burned the bridge. Hindsight is 20/20

The fact of the matter is Kanter was a #3 pick that we gave away. That sucks. Maybe that miss is more on KOC than on DL, but the development and giving him away for nothing was on DL. We had Kanter under contract. Kanter had no options. We had options and DL gave him away. And honestly, I don't mind this that much in a vaccuum. But when you make a list of all the misses, this looks that much worse.

What does this even mean? We either sign him to a max so he didn't talk to other teams or he goes and talks to other teams and we match a max?

One, you let Hayward see what the outside world is like. This is really a minor detail. BUT, you allow others to woo Hayward and place the seed in his mind that the grass is greener on the other side. Also, you show Hayward that you don't value him. When he is a FA next summer, teams will use that as their opening line: "We LOVE you and NEVER would have let you visit other teams like Utah did". Finally, by waiting until the summer, you allowed Hayward to sign a deal that lets him opt out after three years. Had Utah maxed him out when they signed Favors, he would be under contract for a longer time.

Big mistake by Utah.

This is so short-sighted as well. We probably ended up with the better coach.

Hornacek has won 48 games and he did it with a less talented team. Snyder can't say that. As of right now, looking at record and accomplishments, Hornacek is the better coach. I hope Snyder passes him by, but at this moment, letting Horny walk so Corbin didn't have to get fired was a mistake. At worst, we should have made Horny an interm coach and see what he could do.

Horny's offense is what the NBA is right now. It is successful. Snyder runs the slowest offense in the league. Maybe it's a talent issue. If so, then that's another strike on DL. Maybe it's a coaching issue. If so, then we are screwed.

 

[green]

I think that philly has done the right thing.... As ugly as it has been.
They have had some bad luck. Noel injury, wiggins and parker being off the board when they pick and kat and russell being off the board too. Embiid always being hurt. The lottery has not been very kind to them. If things had worked out with ping pong balls that might have towns and wiggins instead of embiid and okafor.

They also have not drafted very well with the draft positions they did have. I think noel and mcw were not the best picks.

Overall I think their strategy has not been bad but the execution has not worked out. Maybe simmons is that home run pick and it all works out for them.


I agree with your plan for what the jazz should do but I'm just not as committed to it as you are and I'm too ready for the jazz to win and make the playoffs now. I have decent patience (I have been pretty optimistic for a while now while we have been losing) but it would be tough for me to see us gut the team and start over.

I'm hoping that we can use the combo we have of really good but not great players, cap space, young untapped potential with our young guys, and tons of draft picks to acquire the star that we both believe the jazz need.

Im thinking they might be able to do it without gutting the team. That's my preference.

I know. I keep flip flopping back and forth. It would suck to start over again, but it would suck to be stuck in that Millsap/Jefferson realm again of winning 42-45 games a year then have Exum and Gobert do what Hayward will do and leave for a better team. We are turning into Minnesota.

I've said this 1,000 times, but the playoffs pissed me off. It's embarrassing that we couldn't make the playoffs this year. The West SUCKS 5-8. We we suck worse.

If you believe Exum and Gobert are the answer, then let's build around them. Hayward and Favors aren't good enough right now, and will be too old later. So, move them for pieces.

I LOVE Favors. I want him here forever. I still think he is our best player right now. BUT, if we can move him to compliment Exum, who I believe will be an All Star or better, then that is the smart thing to do.

If the goal is to make the Miller's money, then stay the course, add a couple vets and make the playoffs as a 7-8 seed the next couple of years. The Miller's will be rolling and they can open another race park.

If the goal is to win a title, then let's build around Exum.

 

[Stoked]

LOL, I am enjoying this tbh.

 

[MDAV28]

Wow. We let two borderline All Stars walk so we could get Hood an average NBA starter? And a bunch of late draft picks that will turn into...

Hood is one of the best young wings. Who knows who the late picks will turn into, we have done extremely well with the late picks. You said nothing, we got a lot more than nothing. Plus you keep contradicting yourself. You say we should tank and agree to build through the draft. Keeping Millsap is not tanking. We wouldn't have been in position to snag Exum. But of course, somebody was offering 3 unprotected lottery picks for Millsap in your imaginary hypothetical world but DL is so incompetent he turned it down.

The fact of the matter is Kanter was a #3 pick that we gave away. That sucks. Maybe that miss is more on KOC than on DL, but the development and giving him away for nothing was on DL. We had Kanter under contract. Kanter had no options. We had options and DL gave him away. And honestly, I don't mind this that much in a vaccuum. But when you make a list of all the misses, this looks that much worse.

What were the "options" again? DL, like any rationale human, realizes we are in Utah. You must keep the talent you have and try to develop it. You aren't hitting in free agency, you aren't getting return value unless you develop your talent. It's easy to say "Kanter didn't work DL ****ed up" after the fact. DL tried everything to make Kanter work and KANTER screwed us over.

One, you let Hayward see what the outside world is like. This is really a minor detail. BUT, you allow others to woo Hayward and place the seed in his mind that the grass is greener on the other side. Also, you show Hayward that you don't value him. When he is a FA next summer, teams will use that as their opening line: "We LOVE you and NEVER would have let you visit other teams like Utah did". Finally, by waiting until the summer, you allowed Hayward to sign a deal that lets him opt out after three years. Had Utah maxed him out when they signed Favors, he would be under contract for a longer time.

Big mistake by Utah.

Lots of hypotheticals and lots of hindsight. Was Hayward at the time worth a max? No way. Literally go back and name one person here or anywhere that said we need to give Hayward a max extension.

Hornacek has won 48 games and he did it with a less talented team. Snyder can't say that. As of right now, looking at record and accomplishments, Hornacek is the better coach. I hope Snyder passes him by, but at this moment, letting Horny walk so Corbin didn't have to get fired was a mistake. At worst, we should have made Horny an interm coach and see what he could do.

Horny's offense is what the NBA is right now. It is successful. Snyder runs the slowest offense in the league. Maybe it's a talent issue. If so, then that's another strike on DL. Maybe it's a coaching issue. If so, then we are screwed.

Snyder had a near top 10 offense for a large part of last season hate to break it to you.

 

[MDAV28]

Complaining about letting Millsap and Jefferson walk and then following up by saying the only way for us to contend is to tank and Exum is our only shot at a superstar is comical. How do you think we got Exum?

 

[NAOS]

Complaining about letting Millsap and Jefferson walk and then following up by saying the only way for us to contend is to tank and Exum is our only shot at a superstar is comical. How do you think we got Exum?

you're destroying green, BUT you're also wasting your time.

green and Hack are the "masters" of engineering hindsight-style observations into the most insane present-tense arguments on JFC.

 

[green]

Complaining about letting Millsap and Jefferson walk and then following up by saying the only way for us to contend is to tank and Exum is our only shot at a superstar is comical. How do you think we got Exum?

Sigh. I love internet smart people. Do I really need to break this down, or are you just posting to feel smart?

 

[green]

Hood is one of the best young wings. Who knows who the late picks will turn into, we have done extremely well with the late picks. You said nothing, we got a lot more than nothing. Plus you keep contradicting yourself. You say we should tank and agree to build through the draft. Keeping Millsap is not tanking. We wouldn't have been in position to snag Exum. But of course, somebody was offering 3 unprotected lottery picks for Millsap in your imaginary hypothetical world but DL is so incompetent he turned it down.



What were the "options" again? DL, like any rationale human, realizes we are in Utah. You must keep the talent you have and try to develop it. You aren't hitting in free agency, you aren't getting return value unless you develop your talent. It's easy to say "Kanter didn't work DL ****ed up" after the fact. DL tried everything to make Kanter work and KANTER screwed us over.



Lots of hypotheticals and lots of hindsight. Was Hayward at the time worth a max? No way. Literally go back and name one person here or anywhere that said we need to give Hayward a max extension.



Snyder had a near top 10 offense for a large part of last season hate to break it to you.

Hood being one of our best wings is the PROBLEM. He isn't that good. He is a solid starter. Nothing more.

What is it about Utah fans and falling in love with average players? First it was Brewer, then Burks, now Hood.

 

[franklin]

Can anyone explain to me why the Jazz wasted the #3 pick on Kanter? I said before the draft that he was way too unathletic to become anything special in the NBA. Now, if an internet thug like myself can see this then why couldn't the Jazz organization? They did, of course, but they needed to sell tickets and create drama instead of putting a good product on the floor.

 

[fishonjazz]

Can anyone explain to me why the Jazz wasted the #3 pick on Kanter? I said before the draft that he was way too unathletic to become anything special in the NBA. Now, if an internet thug like myself can see this then why couldn't the Jazz organization? They did, of course, but they needed to sell tickets and create drama instead of putting a good product on the floor.

You were right. But the professionals in the draft biz had him as the 3rd best prospect in that draft for the most part. I even remember a few saying he should be the #1 pick.

He looked really good in workouts. Had great range, was dunking from the free throw line, had post moves and good footwork.

You were right on that one and the pros were wrong. The draft is a crapshoot to a certain extent.

Every team misses on drafts.

Jan vessley lololololol.

 

[green]

KOC wasn't too great at his draft record. It seems like he missed a lot. The trade up to take Deron might argue otherwise, but let's be real, the choice was between Deron and Chris Paul and you could argue that he made the wrong pick there as well.