Looking for a new team

[Ron Mexico]

Yikes.

1. The Jazz were tanking the last two seasons? All they ended up with were a couple mid-1st round picks and the loss of a previous #3 pick for nothing.

2. Not afraid to do something? What happened with Al and Millsap in DL's first season? How quickly did the FO move on Kanter after he made a mess of his exit interview in 2014 and reportedly asked for a trade that summer? Why should I expect the FO to do what they couldn't/didn't do the last 4 years?

3. Why don't you see Gordo leaving? Every quality unrestricted free agent the Jazz have had during DL's tenure has walked for nothing. Gordo's smart enough to find an organization that's actually committed to trying to win.

1. Yep we got a couple lottery picks the last 2 years. Our very young players are starting to win, thats a good thing.
2. They traded DWill. Which is not DL but still the organization. They didnt get very good trade offers for Al and Milsap since teams assumed they could get them as FA, since the Jazz were clearly moving on. Maybe they could have traded them earlier but they didnt know what they had in the young players yet. The only offers that seemed to be available for these two were bad contracts and/or veteran players they didnt want when they were trying to rebuild. Yes they messed up with Kanter. They should not have drafted him. After they did draft him they should have traded sooner. But giving up on a young player that soon that was a 3rd pick and going to be RFA in the future is different and difficult to do. They assumed they could make it work. They were wrong but had Gobert never emerged they probably still have Kanter or got more for him in a trade.
3. Hayward likes the team. He will get lot more money here. He seems to like the FO, coaches, and players. He is the top player here and treated as such. Has not indicated he wants to leave anytime soon. We have not lost any key FAs we tried to keep recently.Hayward is smart enough to see next season things coming together. Assuming (which I feel is safe) we make the playoffs as a team that young it will be hard to leave. If we make the playoffs as a 5th seed or higher (which has a good possibility) then we are a top team in the west and a good destination for a great player.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Or, you know, try to build a quality team by adding quality players through trade and free agency whenever possible. Players will sign/re-sign with quality teams. If you've proven that you're happy to stay around the minimum salary threshold, never take any risks or add talent, or make any other perceivable efforts to improve the team, players will go elsewhere.

So drafting well is not adding talent? Players will resign when we are a playoff team, which we will be next year. If you dont think we will make the playoffs next year then I see your point and disagree.

 

[fishonjazz]

Here we go again. The "give us 2 more years" discussion that has ALREADY been going on for years. Gordo and Favors could and might be gone "in 2 more years."

I don't think favors can be.
If you think that exum lyles hood and gobert should be playing like vets and outplaying vets and beating more veteran teams in the playoffs while a bunch of the team are hurt then your expectations are too high.

I think that in 2 years the jazz will have hayward (unless they get something good out of him and that case we would have whatever we got in the trade) favors, burks, exum, lyles, gobert, hood, and the additions we pick up in the next two years. And I think all of our current guys that will be under contract in two years will be better than they are now.

The current team was good enough to make the playoffs if they had an average amount of injuries.

Then you give them a few years experience.... I think this team would be better than portland was this year, better than Indiana, dallas, atlanta, boston, and maybe a few other playoff teams.

I believe we have the talent but it isn't experienced and healthy/lucky enough.

I think this will be one of those fundamental disagreements that will never go anywhere.
Fact is that I simply think the players that the jazz have are better you and gvc and others think. Thats not going to change I don't think no matter what I say to you or what you say to me.

 

[fishonjazz]

So drafting well is not adding talent? Players will resign when we are a playoff team, which we will be next year. If you dont think we will make the playoffs next year then I see your point and disagree.

This.
Jazz acquired draft picks in trades for taking bad contracts, and they tanked. Both ways to add talent that doesn't involve trade or free agency. And they still have future draft picks from teams coming in the next few years (again, a way to add talent)

Now they just need those additions to the team to be healthy and more experienced.

I don't have delusions of thinking the jazz can be true contenders without getting a real star but if you don't have curry lebron durant etc then you arent winning a chip anyway and we know we can't get those guys.

I do think that the current roster plus some filler (via draft, trade or free agency) can have home court advantage in the playoffs in a couple years. If we reach our potential.

 

[Maneesh]

and GVC is right about Dennis Lindsey. The dudes best acquisition in almost 4-5 years is Shelvin Mack who would only pass the water on a Hawks team LOL

DL SUCKS IT!

 

[GVC]

A few responses in edited order (with one earlier quote):

From earlier in the thread:

That season was about developing and evaluating the core/youth players on this team. If we had signed vets we would not know anything about Lyles since he would not have played. We would know less about Hood and all the fans on here would be crying that he didnt get more playing time.

From your previous post:

They didnt get very good trade offers for Al and Milsap since teams assumed they could get them as FA, since the Jazz were clearly moving on. Maybe they could have traded them earlier but they didnt know what they had in the young players yet.

I've seen these particular double-think arguments frequently on this site. You can't have it both ways. Why was it wrong to dump lame-duck vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2012, but right to not add vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2015?

1. Yep we got a couple lottery picks the last 2 years. Our very young players are starting to win, thats a good thing.

You don't 'tank' for a mid-first when you already have a team loaded with middling talent. The Jazz need to add more high-end talent. My preference would be to acquire talent via free agency and trades (as opposed to through tanking). The Jazz have chosen the middle road of neither tanking nor consolidating and adding talent through trade and free agency. It's the worst possible option.

2. They traded DWill. Which is not DL but still the organization.

KOC was a terrific GM. I'm not sure what his record has to do with DL's ability.

3. Hayward likes the team. He will get lot more money here. He seems to like the FO, coaches, and players. He is the top player here and treated as such. Has not indicated he wants to leave anytime soon. We have not lost any key FAs we tried to keep recently.Hayward is smart enough to see next season things coming together. Assuming (which I feel is safe) we make the playoffs as a team that young it will be hard to leave. If we make the playoffs as a 5th seed or higher (which has a good possibility) then we are a top team in the west and a good destination for a great player.

1. The extra money is only in the form of an additional year and slightly higher raises.

2. His opinion of the team/organization/teammates is pure speculation. Players are smart enough to play nice, as doing otherwise generally devalues them. He may be itching to leave, and he's already signed one contract (offer sheet) with another team. We'll have to wait and see (although Frank linking to some of his statements in the OP would be helpful).

3. The 5th seed is the ceiling for this team next season. There may be better teams with cap space next summer.

 

[GVC]

I don't think favors can be.

Favors has two years left on his contract. He'll be an unrestricted free agent in 2018.

 

[GVC]

This.
Jazz acquired draft picks in trades for taking bad contracts, and they tanked.

That represents 1 of the 4 years DL has been at the helm. What has he done the other 3 years?

The current team was good enough to make the playoffs if they had an average amount of injuries.

The current team missed the playoffs, despite playing in an uncharacteristically weak Western Conference.

 

[Shad]

Then you give them a few years experience.... I think this team would be better than portland was this year, better than Indiana, dallas, atlanta, boston, and maybe a few other playoff teams.

This is laughable at worst.

 

[fishonjazz]

What if last summer the jazz went out and broke the bank and picked up 3 upper level free agents. (lets just say 3 players at the level of carroll, mathews, and danny green. Not those guys specifically but guys that are about that good and that sought after by teams and about that price)
Then what if 2 of the 3 guys had major injuries and one of them missed the whole year and the other one missed over 50 games. Then the 3rd guy had a hard time gelling with his new teammates and struggled all year with consistency and chemistry in the new offense and defense that he had to learn with the jazz team.
Now i think that you guys would have praised what DL had did and then when we dont really get any better and miss the playoffs again and were asked "why didn't that master plan of going after free agents work out?" you would answer that getting those free agents was the right move it just didn't work out because of injuries and guys not knowing the system or having chemistry with their teammates so they havent lived up their potential play that we expected when we aquired them. And you would be right.

See just like the 2 injured guys and the one guy that was having a hard time fitting in and learning the plays and stuff, exum and burks are the 2 injured guys. Injuries stopped them from living up to the potential that fans and jazz management expected. Lyles is the new guy that had to learn where he fit with the team and get chemistry down and so didn't live up to the potential that he has (started to show it at the end of the season though). Gobert is in both situations. He was injured a lot and he is still pretty new and trying to learn what he is doing and both things kept him from reaching his potential.

This not reaching potential right off the bat thing is not exclusive to super young guys or our super youngs specifically. Other teams have super young guys that they need to wait on to reach their potential. Even when teams acquire a free agent that they expect to be really good it can take that player awhile to figure things out (kevin love) or they can get hurt (carroll)

If the jazz had been active in free agency it does not mean that they are automatically better. Those free agent pick up can get injured or be busts on their new team. The jazz have aquired good talent through the draft rather than free agency and trades but they still acquired good talent. Just hasn't been healthy or experienced enough. Its coming soon.

 

[Shad]

Also, all those that think Favors and Hayward will stay. When was the last time a half decent UFA resigned with the Jazz? Andre, Karl, John? LOL (Not including extensions).

We don't have a great record of keeping decent players. Hayward WILL NOT resign with the Jazz. He's already made his money and he'll play where he'd like to play

 

[fishonjazz]

The current team missed the playoffs, despite playing in an uncharacteristically weak Western Conference.

I didnt say anything about strength of conference. I said that if they had an average amount of injuries they would have made the playoffs. I stand by that. And with one of the youngest teams in the league. Pretty good imo. We agree to disagree on that i guess.