Maneesh
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You will never convince this people. I am sorry. Only when rich paul says for Max money will Jazz fan want throw him out.
Lyles
- Thread starter Keefe
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You will never convince this people. I am sorry. Only when rich paul says for Max money will Jazz fan want throw him out.
fishonjazz
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I have said this many times before about lyles.
It all comes down to how good his jumpshot gets.
If his jumpshot is good and consistent then he will be good. If not then he will suck
It all comes down to how good his jumpshot gets.
If his jumpshot is good and consistent then he will be good. If not then he will suck
Not sure what you are saying. If he sucks at rebounding, passing, defense, and other parts of his game, but has a good consistent jumpshot, he will be good. But if he is great at rebounding, passing, defense and other parts of his game, but has an inconsistent jump shot, he sucks? I'd rather measure him on overall performance versus one dimension.
GVC
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The term 'wing player' presumably originally referred to players who traditionally play on the wing -- shooting guards and small forwards. That seems to have changed a bit, as people have grouped smaller shooting guards in with point guards as 'guards.' Now, wings seem to mostly be defined as bigger perimeter players capable of defending the 2 or 3 (or at least the right size to do so). Guards are perimeter players who can't defend the bigger perimeter players, and are thus limited to defending traditional 1s and 2s. While you have some Bigs -- 4s and 5s -- who primarily play on the perimeter now, 'perimeter player' is sometimes used as a catch-all for the 1-3 positions. To complete the definitions, I break it down as guards at the 1/2, wings at the 2/3, forwards at the 3/4 and Bigs at the 4/5. However, you have some players who really only fit one of the traditional 5 positions -- mostly point guards and power forwards.
That's not terribly precise, and some might disagree with those definitions. Still, I doubt many would call Trey Burke a wing player, even in lineups where he primarily plays off-ball/on the wing. Dude's a guard.
Doesn't really matter. You can construct lineups with all sorts of different players, many players don't fit these labels terribly well (is Tony Allen a wing or a guard?), and other descriptive words are more useful in describing a player -- e.g., rim protector, slasher, 3&D.
fishonjazz
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I'm saying that he will be adequate at passing, rebounding, and defense because he has good bbiq and decent size, speed and athleticism.
But that won't be enough to make him a good player.
A guy like gobert is extremely good at defense. So he doesn't need to be able to shoot.
A guy like rodman is amazing at rebounding. Doesn't need to be able to shoot.
Some players are so good at passing, or getting to the line, or are so athletic that their shot is unnecessary to make them valuable.
Lyles is not exceptional at anything.... Therefore his jumpshot is extremely important to how valuable of a player he is
framer
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more points, less rebounds, less assists. Obviously I would take Turner over Lyles, but that wasn't an option. The difference isn't really "night and day" however.
If we're going to use this thread to complain about drafting Lyles, then also keep an eye on Kelly Oubre who's played well his last 5 games. He's the guy I liked once Turner was off the board. His length and quickness on the perimeter next to Exum would have made our defense that much better. I remember Walt Perin saying that Oubre had the best workout of the ~100 people who worked out last summer. He's like Trevor Ariza with more upside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Ua3Ob4iXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3Ua3Ob4iXQ
Hotdog
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I would take any player in that range over Lyles.
Lyles was the last person I wanted. I was literally saying, anyone but him.
Lyles has had flashes of "oh, this guy could be a role player" while other rookies are having flashes of "oh, this guy could be a starter".
Which is what we drafted him for. A versatile PF who can stretch the floor and make the right plays.
fishonjazz
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I liked oubre allot.... Even more than turner.
My realistic draft board for the jazz pick was kaminsky, oubre, turner
fishonjazz
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Ya, this
Keefe
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No doubt. Oubre had top six or seven talent but his mental deficiencies (he drove Self crazy) and play at times last year dropped him. And I was about to say we don't need ten alphas on this team but yeah, I'm not sure we really have more than two, Gobert and Burke.
Maneesh
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So what you say here is Jazz have fail?
Thanks for clarifying
Handlogten's Heros
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Lyles rookie year kinda reminds me of hayward's rookie year... except he has much more personality on the bench. Have really enjoyed his celebrations... natural, funny, and the proper amount of excitedness for the team.
He looks like a great compliment to Favs and Gobert.
He looks like a great compliment to Favs and Gobert.
JazzyFresh
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I'd like to see this energy and enthusiasm transfer to the court. On the bench he's a high character, high energy guy. On the floor he seems kind of emotionless.
Booker for example brings his energy with him. Lyles is Jeckyll and Hyde'ish.