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Mike Conley Resurgence

David Stern said:
I think he’s a good coach, but I don’t think he got the most out of our overall roster construction the last two years. He got the best out of Rudy, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that he didn’t get the best out of several other guys on our team.
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Two years ago the Jazz had the best record in the league, three all-stars, the defensive player of the year, the 6th man of the year and the runner up 6th man of the year. I'm very curious which players you think he could've gotten more out of. Hell, even Niang had a great year, and he was our 9th man in the rotation.
 
Jingled said:
Definitely wasn't fired, lol. It was widely reported by some of the leagues best reporters that Quin was offered an extension that would've made him one of the highest paid coaches in the league. At the press conference after Quin stepped down, Ainge said that he and everyone else desperately wanted him to stay.
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I know what was said, but the gratuitous press conference, etc., made it feel odd.

Edit: tell me one other time a coach has stepped down and still been paid on his contract? It does not happen. Plenty of situations of coaches still being paid when the team asks them to step down or fires them. You really think they would continue paying him for this year (and next with his option) if he stepped away?

It was also widely reported that the Miller family would never sell the Jazz, and their perpetual trust would ensure that (when it actually made it more likely the team would be sold). Did you believe that too?
 
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SoUjazzfan said:
I wouldn't even consider trading him until the ASB. There's just so much he can teach the new guy's. Especially Sexton. If we see a drop off and decide to go into primarily development mode then kick the tires on a trade for someone younger or a future pic. If we're going to make a run in the playoffs keep him, he's a necessary piece to have any chance.
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Yeah that’s what I say (regarding the playoffs). Our starting unit is elite in no small part because of the elite playmaking and shooting of our holdover guard line. As @The Fresh Prince was saying above, Conley seems emancipated this season and is having his best season in a Jazz uniform. Or maybe it’s the new black and gold! Whatever it is, better ride it out and see where the smiling assassin can take us. Special player for sure and no reason he Clarkson and Markkanen shouldn’t be in the All Star Game this year representing.
 
Quinn did for me good job until last year. Last year was definitly the year he shouldn't have made. He was short of solution to make this team take another step and he loose his energy. It's the same way for every running business, you try to get the best out from our team and once you achieve it abd stil not win, it become hard to find solution. Sometimes, just new people change things a lot.
And i still a firmly believer that Don and Rudy beeing not closed did not help.
 
Jingled said:
Hardy has been fantastic no doubt, but I think Quin is getting some unfair blame. Yes, Mike struggled his first year in Quins system, but the next 3 years he played terrific in the system, he even made his only all-star game two years ago under Quin. Quin coached the Jazz to the best record in the league two years ago, the #1 offense in the league last year and #2 the year before, we also had the #1defense and #2 defense in the league under Quin during the 17-18 and 18-19 seasons.

Some of the criticism is fair, lack of flexibility with his lineups and rotations, and lack of adjustments among other things, but acting like Quin was a bad coach or like he didn't get the best out of his players is just silly and not true.
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Yeah Quin definitely doesn't get the credit he deserves on here anymore. Over his last two years we were the best team in the league and had the best offense in the league a year ago. Not having a ball dominant guard like Donovan or a big that operates almost exclusively in the paint like Rudy has definitely helped him. The ball is moving a lot better this year and our spacing is way better as well.
 
FrenchJazzFa said:
Quinn did for me good job until last year. Last year was definitly the year he shouldn't have made. He was short of solution to make this team take another step and he loose his energy. It's the same way for every running business, you try to get the best out from our team and once you achieve it abd stil not win, it become hard to find solution. Sometimes, just new people change things a lot.
And i still a firmly believer that Don and Rudy beeing not closed did not help.
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We lacked any resources to improve the team so we had to run it back with an even worse group last year. Things just ran their course with that group.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It wasn't. His advanced stats were that of a top ten player. He won the award through merit via his huge impact and great ahooting stats
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To be fair, since he played most of his minutes with Gobert, it was difficult to separate his impact vs Gobert in some of the advanced stats.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Heard Gobert actually sucked because the Jazz are good this year and Minnesota is struggling
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Rudy clearly didn't suck but as I said in the offseason things are completely different now that he's in a place that's not dedicated to playing a style that compliments his strengths. Just like we've seen Mike find his legs playing with bigs that stretch the floor and can pass the ball.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It wasn't. His advanced stats were that of a top ten player. He won the award through merit via his huge impact and great ahooting stats
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You could argue that it wasnt a lifetime achievement award (i think it was) but iirc he was a replacement pick. He made the team because someone else was hurt or something i thought. I could be wrong though.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
 
fishonjazz said:
You could argue that it wasnt a lifetime achievement award (i think it was) but iirc he was a replacement pick. He made the team because someone else was hurt or something i thought. I could be wrong though.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app
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No that is correct. That is how he got in.


View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2934747-jazz-pg-mike-conley-reportedly-invited-to-2021-nba-all-star-game#:~:text=Utah%20Jazz-,Mike%20Conley%20Named%20Devin%20Booker's%20Injury,2021%20NBA%20All%2DStar%20Game&text=Utah%20Jazz%20point%20guard%20Mike,the%20NBA%20announced%20on%20Friday.&text=Booker%20will%20miss%20the%20All,to%20a%20left%20knee%20sprain
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Commissioner Adam Silver chose Conley as Booker's replacement with rules stipulating a substitute must be selected from the same conference as the injured player.
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There were several players in the mix for this spot, and Conley arguably had middle of the road stats by comparison, but the Jazz were just killing it and Conley was having a bounce-back season. Plus he is just a nice guy so no one would poo poo the choice by Silver. But we have to be real and understand this was way more of a lifetime achievement award than a true all-star season. Not many all-stars with stat lines like that -

Conley, 33, is averaging 16.1 points, 5.7 assists and 3.5 rebounds in 29 games this season as he continues to bounce back from a dismal 2019-20 campaign.
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Remember, Booker, who was having a career year, did not get selected originally and was only selected as a replacement for AD. Then Booker got injured, so Conley was a replacement for a replacement.

Dejounte Murray was having a career year that year with a stat line of 19 pts, 8 reb, and 9 assist, but his team wasn't winning. LaMelo ball as well, was putting up 20 pts, 7 rebs, 8 assists and they were in the playoff hunt due to his play. SGA was also having a career year, but on a bad team.

So in no way can you really say that Conley beat out other guys because he was just better. IMO Ball was having a stellar year and pushing his team toward the playoffs and probably should have been picked, but give his age, and the fact that often, if you don't get voted in, the NBA wants to see you pay your dues before receiving accolades like that, they picked the elder statesman Conley both as a feel-good story for the best citizen in the NBA and the guy that would appreciate it most, and because the Jazz were surging and appeared dominant, and Conley was having one of the best years of his career, of that there was no doubt. But one of the best years of his career was still well short of the stats of other top wings/guards also in the running. It was a lifetime achievement award, albeit well-deserved, but still was not really about him being the best guard at the spot at the time.
 
fishonjazz said:
Also, all stars arent chosen based off advanced stats.


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Almost never in fact. Mostly it is fan favorite, best or at least impact or leadership players on the best teams, and if they have paid their dues. Lots of young guys on winning teams with good advanced stats get passed over. Look at DM, who didn't get selected despite his stellar play in his early years and our resulting success, because of the "pay your dues" factor, among other things, like Utah not being a prime audience draw. Many more things go into this selection beyond stats, advanced or otherwise. It is NOT a list of just the best players.


Case in point, at age 40 Dirk Nowitzki was chosen for the all-star game in a season he was averaging 7 pts and 3 boards on 35% shooting.
 
Reserves are picked by coaches (probably coaches assistants) and I would assume that they look at advanced stats as part of their assessment.

In Conley's case he was an injury reserve, which is picked by the commissioner. I have not idea what criteria the commissioner is looking at, but lifetime achievement seems very possible.

Having a winning record has always been an extremely important criteria for All Star selections. I'm not sure it's always fair since strength of schedule can make a big difference, especially as early as the voting gets started.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
Reserves are picked by coaches (probably coaches assistants) and I would assume that they look at advanced stats as part of their assessment.

In Conley's case he was an injury reserve, which is picked by the commissioner. I have not idea what criteria the commissioner is looking at, but lifetime achievement seems very possible.

Having a winning record has always been an extremely important criteria for All Star selections. I'm not sure it's always fair since strength of schedule can make a big difference, especially as early as the voting gets started.
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I’m cool with giving the nod to the player on the winning team vs losing team with slightly better stats.
 
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