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Millsap willing to come off the bench.

Should Sap start, or come off the bench?

  • Start

    Votes: 17 38.6%

  • Bench

    Votes: 27 61.4%
  • Total voters
    44
NUMBERICA said:
Favors earned the starting spot by being long and what else? I'm not sure your definition of "earned" is the same as anyone else's.
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Do you know the record when Favors is in the starting line up compared with sap? Have not lost a game yet. If you think sap has great D then by all means keep putting him in the starting spot and see how the teams like lakers do against the jazz with their size. He got killed last year over and over.
 
Twin Towers said:
We should be looking at who complements each other best off the bench and starting. Not who deserves to start because of hard work.
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Al might be better off the bench. When he's playing with talented players, those players' talents are wasted when Al has the ball, and Al's talents are wasted when those other players have the ball. That is, Al doesn't play very well without the ball, and he's not very good at making players around him better. He's a perfect option on an anemic second unit when half court sets lead to nothing. You can always just dump the ball into him and let him go to work.

Sap is the type of player who can complement talented players very well. If you need outside shooting, he can give you some of that. Transition O, facilitating from the high post, PnR, working from the baseline and short corner? He's proficient in all those spots too. His talents are somewhat wasted when playing with lesser players. If Favors can operate adequately from the low post, Sap's going to complement him a lot better than Jefferson will.

It's entirely possible that the Jazz would be better off with Sap starting and Al coming off the bench. They'll both be getting 30+ minutes anyway.
 
GVC said:
Al might be better off the bench. When he's playing with talented players, those players' talents are wasted when Al has the ball, and Al's talents are wasted when those other players have the ball. That is, Al doesn't play very well without the ball, and he's not very good at making players around him better. He's a perfect option on an anemic second unit when half court sets lead to nothing. You can always just dump the ball into him and let him go to work.

Sap is the type of player who can complement talented players very well. If you need outside shooting, he can give you some of that. Transition O, facilitating from the high post, PnR, working from the baseline and short corner? He's proficient in all those spots too. His talents are somewhat wasted when playing with lesser players. If Favors can operate adequately from the low post, Sap's going to complement him a lot better than Jefferson will.

It's entirely possible that the Jazz would be better off with Sap starting and Al coming off the bench. They'll both be getting 30+ minutes anyway.
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It lowers the value of Jefferson and makes him disgruntled. Jazz might as well showcase him and trade him after the first month if he is that much of a problem. Jefferson has worked hard this year and here is his chance to see if he understands the offense and plays better. If he does not trade him and start Favors and Millsap. Either way Jefferson will never be benched on this team.
I am honestly leading towards Corbin picking Favors. I honestly think Favors will be starting. After watching Corbin's interview from today. I think Corbin has been planing to pick Favors but didn't want to announce it while Millsap was injured. but its all speculation. We will find out monday or tuesday.
I hope the starting lineup goes like this.

Harris - Watson - Tinsely
Miles - Bell - Burks
Hayward - Howard - Evans
Favors - Millsap
Jefferson - Kanter

Hopefully we dump Bell for a trade exception, 2nd round pick or contracts that are not guaranteed.

I have a feeling the starting lineup will include Bell though for now.
 
I get why some of you want to start Millsap because his play and hard work have given him the right to be a starter, but PAUL MILLSAP is really only 6'7" and they are being very generous when they say he is 6'8", if you don't believe go check the pre-draft measurements on Millsap, and may coaches have said this and its so true, that you can not teach length. Trust me, I love Paul's hard work and dedication to this team, but when it comes to basketball size matters, and many other things but that's not the point. Listening to Locke interview the stats guy a couple days ago (on a podcast, I will have a link below for all of these quotes) Locke asks him, "With Millsap as a starter where does he rank as a power forward?" Stats guy says, "in the 20's somewhere," then Locke proceeds to ask, "Where does Millsap rank as a third big, the first big off the bench?" Stats guy answers, "Right in the top two in the league behind Lamar Odom, and it maybe a toss up between him and Odom!" Having hearing that it got me thinking, and I knew this last year when we got Derrick "The Future" Favors in that trade I thought to myself we are going to need to start this kid eventually and I said to myself what would a bench of scorers of Miles and Millsap look like for the Jazz, and now add Josh Howard and Enes Kanter getting offensive rebound and put backs, that Jazz hands down have to have a top tier second unit in this league and trust me you need a good bench to win in this league.

So having said all that, those Millsap lovers out there are still hating me for even mentioning the thought of, "oh no, don't bench our poor Millsap" be real here, be honest with yourselves, for all those who have been cut from a basketball team can relate to this, the more talented and taller guys always WIN! I know that is hard to swallow, and I didn't want to bring up those memories of all of us crying as a teenage boy. On a serious note, I agree with what someone said on the page before, you can not, ok correction you can but you shouldn't bench a $14 million dollar player like Jefferson. There is a reason Big Al gets a $14 million dollar contract a max contract at the time and Millsap will never touch a max contract. Big Al with all his flaws still produces and produces at a all-star level and it's not only the Jazz who think Al Jefferson deserves that kind of contract (even though none of these players actually deserve anything close to these amounts of money they are making) but its what the market is set for them and Millsap is paid like a third big, a sixth man, and that's the position he should be in. We got killed last year in the opposing power forward starters with Millsap starting, because they can shoot right over the top of him and there is a reason we got out rebounded with Al and Sap starting because of length, and its not all Paul's fault either but a lot of it is.

I have said this MANY times on this board, and I am sure its not the last...Paul Millsap is just a little taller then most NBA teams shooting guard, at 6'7", Kobe Bryant and C.J. Miles are 6'6", so that is enough said there. To end off just as another post I read earlier stated Paul Millsap will be the sixth man on this team and if he doesn't like it and some other team is willing to pay him more and start him, then good for that team and Paul can sign there when his contract is up and I will not put it past him to not say a word until his contract is up unless someone asks if he thinks he should be a starter because really if no one ever asked him whether he thinks he should be a starter or not then this wouldn't be an issue as much as it is because every NBA player if asked if they think they should be a starter would say they think they are or else they would be in this league. Paul Millsap is not a starting power forward or small forward on a contending team unless he has LeBron James and Dwayne Wade as his teammates or the great Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen (did I mention I really don't like either one of these duos). Last, I just want to say I love Paul Millsap's work ethic and heart and I wish every player that put on a Utah Jazz uniform had his mentality, but Paul as much as we all love his game, is just not a starting big man in this league if your franchise is about winning championships, because developing Derrick Favors into that star he will become should be this franchise's #1 priority because Derrick Favors is the type of player with teammates around him like Paul Millsap can win championships.
 
This is so easy, i don`t see why more people don`t see it. Favors should be our center and Millsap our 4.
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Ok, I am willing to consider this. This implies that Al is either coming off the bench, or is no longer on the team. Assuming that his agility is somewhat better than last year as we have heard, is Al helpful to the Jazz? I say yes he is, and we should keep him. He is the only post player on the Jazz with a go-to move that is unstoppable. Sure, Favors is long and athletic, but he doesn't have a signature move yet. Millsap does a lot of things reasonably well, but his closest thing to an unstoppable move is his 10 foot fadeaway jumper, good to have, but not enough. I think Al brings a necessary element to the team with his paint play, at least for this year, and needs to play.

Having said this, I do think that Millsap and Favors would play relatively well together, whether it is in the first unit or second. Favors would be waiting behind Millsap to block the shots that get by him.
 
For 2010-2011 (based on +/- per minute, in descending order):
Top 4 lineups with Favors (other ones weren't subtantially positive)
*Harris-Miles-Kirilenko-Favors-Jefferson
*Harris-Miles-Hayward-Favors-Jefferson
*Watson-Miles-Hayward-Evans-Favors
*Watson-Miles-Millsap-Favors-Jefferson
*Watson-Miles-Hayward-Millsap-Favors
https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA13.HTM#5man

Top 6 lineups with Jefferson
*Williams-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson
*Watson-Williams-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson
*Harris-Miles-Kirilenko-Favors-Jefferson
*Watson-Price-Miles-Kirilenko-Jefferson
*Williams-Price-Miles-Millsap-Jefferson
*Watson-Bell-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson

Top 7 lineups with Millsap
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Millsap-Fesenko [<-- Imagine that. A lineup with Fesenko #1.]
*Williams-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson
*Watson-Williams-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson
*Harris-Miles-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson
*Williams-Bell-Miles-Millsap-Elson
*Williams-Price-Miles-Millsap-Jefferson
*Watson-Bell-Kirilenko-Millsap-Jefferson

Top 4 lineups with Harris (other ones weren't subtantially positive)
*Watson-Harris-Bell-Miles-Jefferson
*Harris-Bell-Kirilenko-Jefferson-Elson
*Harris-Miles-Kirilenko-Favors-Jefferson
*Harris-Miles-Hayward-Favors-Jefferson

[My conclusion: Not enough of a pattern to clearly suggest who should start, especially with DW and AK (and Price) gone (and prominently present in so many of these combinations).

So make it merit-based, on a per-game, per-quarter, and maybe even per-minute basis, just like it should be anyway.]
 
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InGameStrategy said:
Yes, because a starting 4/5 combination (DF + PM) averaging 6'9" (generously) is sooo effective.
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Big Ben and Sheed had a ~6'9" "average height", and Id say they were pretty damn effective on both ends of the floor.

There are a lot more factors that tie-in with the effectiveness of a PF/C combination than just measuring the players' height. I think that Ty should test both of these proposed lineups before we can come to any sort of conclusions like the ones we are making. Seeing as KOC has said that Favors will play some 5, we will probably witness a lot of different lineups this season.
 
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