*OFFICIAL* 17 on 26, Donovan Mitchell is the Monta Ellis watch thread

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Did you not watch the game last night? He was taking good shots, they just weren’t falling, one of those nights.

Pretty typical at this point tbh, good looks and misses.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I still hold out hope that the player that we saw last year will emerge. I mean he is what 1/3 of the way through his second season as the guy with all the pressure. I think he will figure it out. And the vaunted development staff here better prove they are as good as advertised. That might really be the problem.

The player last season was a fun, unexpected rookie. His shot and ability to consistently get past someone 1-on-1 has always been suspect.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I still think he is going to be a very good player, but I think it is CRAZY to say that we should trust that he will work and care as much as Rudy.

What makes you think Mitchell cares at all? I mean, even 5%?

Rudy has come back hungry and improved every year.

Irrelevant.

Just like everyone else does, DM chooses to say what is most beneficial for himself (true or not).

You mean like Gobert? If everyone does this, then of course you include Gobert.

Are you just mad that Mitchell had you snowed?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just rewatched the game with the explicit purpose of seeing what wrong Mitchell did to deserve the comments here. With the exception of a couple of shots that EVERY SINGLE primary scorer in the league gets EVERY SINGLE GAME, everything else was in the flow of the offense - either on penetration to the rim, or wide open on the catch or coming off the pick and roll, or with expiring shotclock or in transition. He had a couple of turnovers where he got caught in the air without a clear idea about what he's gonna do. Those are not ideal and he should try to eliminate them, but they happen.

I have close to zero issue with what Mitchell did and I actually thought he played his heart out on defense because he felt that he was letting his team down because of all the missed shots and was trying to effect the game in other ways... which he did. And then he was clutch at the FT line in the final minute. My problem with him right now is not with the shots he takes... it's that he doesn't make them with the consistency he needs to.

shot 1 first possession of the game, coming off the PnR Durant gives him space, he knocks down the shot(that's with 5 second on the shotclock)
shot 2 driving to the paint in transition gets blocked from behind
shot 3 penetration all the way to the rim... good shot just misses the it with the left hand
shot 4 penetration to the rim, makes the layup
TO1: penetrates in the paint... gets caught in the air without an option to pass to... bad TO... needs to eliminate this
TO2: coming off the PnR, decides to pass to rolling Gobert but he doesn't look for the ball assuming Mitchell will shoot... miscommunication
shot 5 penetrates in the paint, puts his shoulder into the defender and creates enough space for a clean shot(floater) but misses it... not a great shot, but nothing egregious when you consider we had 8 seconds left in the shotclock
shot 6 eurostep in transition, fakes out Draymond, but gets blocked from behind by Curry
shot 7 miss from 3 in ISO vs Jerebko with 3 seconds left on the clock. The shot is wide open. Jerebko gets faked out of his shoes and doesn't even put a hand up.
shot 8 PnR, gets in the paint and is well defended by Thompson, throw a bad floatery shot vs contest.
------------ this is Q1^ I only see 1 shot that's clearly objectionable
shot 9 great penetration vs Iguodala, goes straight to the rim... just misses the layup with the left hand against late contest from Draymond
shot 10 ISO vs looney, gets in the paint, again creates enough space for uninterrupted floater, misses it but then gets his own rebound and scores
shot 11 see 10. scores the layup on the rebound from his own shot
TO3: gets the ball with 5 seconds on the clock at 25 feet away from the basket, drives and gets tied with Durant for jumpball
TO4: Thompson straight up strips him clean on a drive
shot 12 Misses a FT but gets the steal on the outlet pass, gets absolutely hammered from behind by Iggy... the refs swallow the whistle... this counts as a missed shot FFS.
shot 13 Spaces out to the corner on a transition, Ricky finds him... misses the open 3.
shot 14 Final seconds of the half, keeps the ball for final possession, creates a good shot with a step back 3 vs Thompson, misses
---------^literally zero complaints about his shots from me in Q2. Well... maybe the iso vs Looney could have been better shot elsewhere, but every primary scorer gets some of those possessions in every single game

shot 15 gets a free release off of a off-screen action with Gobert, gets wide open jumpshot from FT line, makes it
shot 16 gets cut off on a penetration by Thompson. Tries to find a teammate, noone's open and he gets stripped. I have no idea why this is counted as a shot. This is a turnover, not a shot.
shot 17 Iso vs Looney. Gets to the rim, gets bumped and fouled, no foul called... the shot is missed. He's looking at the refs with disgust.
shot 18 Wide open 3 from a hand off from Ingles... makes it
shot 19 Spaces to the corner in semi-transition. Ricky finds him for the open 3, misses!
shot 20 Driving layup in semi-transition after he beats his man on the catch. Met by Draymond at the rim. You can see him looking for someone to pass to, but noone is open. There are 3 players in the clogged paint around him, because both Favors and Gobert are in the paint and Ingles is covered on the perimeter. Misses the shot.
shot 21 Penetrates in the paint. Again uses his body well and creates a wide open floater from 6-7 feet, no contest from anybody... misses it.
------------------^this is Q3
shot 22 Open 3 in transition. You can see miscommunication between Jerebko and Livingston both pointing toward him. They don't know who should take him. Eventually Jerebko tries to cover him, Mitchell sees that he can get an open 3 and takes it with 18 seconds on the clock. Is this ideal? Probably not, but come on. If this one goes in we praise him for his awareness that he saw noone was picking him up and got a free shot out of it. I really don't have much of a problem with this one.
shot 23 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3p shot in transition. Misses it. He missed everything in transition in this game...
shot 24 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3 in semi-transition. Noone picked him up as a trailer again. Misses.
shot 25 We get the ball out of bounds with 1.2 seconds left on the shotclock. Misses and quick give and go 3.
TO5: beats Thompson off the dribble and gets in the paint, jumps to pass the ball but gets caught in the air and travels.
shot 26 WIDE OPEN catch and shoot 3 on the wing, misses.
TO6: bad TO, dribbles off his foot.

---------------this was Q4...

This is very far from a good game for Mitchell but his shot selection was the last thing to worry about. It's not the shots he takes... it's the fact that he's missing the shots that he should be taking that's troubling. If people don't want him to be taking 90% of those shots they should not want him to be in the game altogether, because they are good shots and if it's not him taking them, it should be someone else taking them. Also... some of his TOs are preventable and he should work on not jumping without clear plan.

the quick threes late in the fourth were the only ones I didn't want... it was the combo of all 3. He was going for the home run shot that ended the game. 1-2 of those I'd like to run the offense but they weren't terrible and again it was the combination of the three in a cluster on a night when he was not feeling it.

The jump passes are more troublesome. I don't want him taking a ton of shots in the 18 foot range, but I do wonder sometimes if he doesn't think he can get a clean look in the paint if pulling up at 18 is a better option. I want him at PG or as the primary ball handler at some point so I had hoped his vision and passing would get better. he was pretty good last year.

GS defends the paint well and green as a help defender with Klay as the primary (Klay is immune to the freedom of movement changes btw) is tough to deal with.

 

[checkbookdoc]

What makes you think Mitchell cares at all? I mean, even 5%?



Irrelevant.



You mean like Gobert? If everyone does this, then of course you include Gobert.

Are you just mad that Mitchell had you snowed?

 

[Bawse Dawg]

We've seen enough.

lol

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Let me be clear, I am not saying I don't want DM. I still think he is going to be a very good player, but I think it is CRAZY to say that we should trust that he will work and care as much as Rudy. Rudy has come back hungry and improved every year. He went from D-league, to rotation, to starter, to max player, to DPOY, to now without ever turning it down a notch.

The fact is 99% of everyone in the NBA is an above average worker (relative to normal people), but compared to the other NBA players there is no reason to think that right now, over the summer, or going forward DM was or is above average.

Also, there is a difference between charisma and being genuine, in fact these characteristics are often negatively correlated. When asked a question and a player has to chose between 1) saying the truth or 2) saying what is most beneficial to them, what do you think they will say? Just like everyone else does, DM chooses to say what is most beneficial for himself (true or not). Do I think DM is a good dude? Yes. Do I think every answer he gives is true? No. DM is just more polished than most and so he is better at playing the narrative that is best for him.

I mention that stuff because DM has said he watched every game and the reports are he is a film room junkie. You can believe him. He says and does the right things. I don't know if he has the fire Rudy does... but I never compared those two or said DM was a better worker.

DM is genuine... I've seen it when there aren't a ton of cameras around. You can trust he will become close to the best player that he can. He will have success on and off the court... just because he does marketing events or travels a lot in the offseason doesn't mean he isn't working or focused.

Also, if you know his back story you'd know he is a worker... chubby kid, worked his *** off, not a highly touted recruit, improves in college, become s a late lotto pick, ROY conversation... he's hit a speed bump... it happens. We don't have all the info, but I have enough to know dude will try like hell to get better... you have your own opinion... that's fine.

 

[stitches]

the quick threes late in the fourth were the only ones I didn't want... it was the combo of all 3. He was going for the home run shot that ended the game. 1-2 of those I'd like to run the offense but they weren't terrible and again it was the combination of the three in a cluster on a night when he was not feeling it.

The jump passes are more troublesome. I don't want him taking a ton of shots in the 18 foot range, but I do wonder sometimes if he doesn't think he can get a clean look in the paint if pulling up at 18 is a better option. I want him at PG or as the primary ball handler at some point so I had hoped his vision and passing would get better. he was pretty good last year.

GS defends the paint well and green as a help defender with Klay as the primary (Klay is immune to the freedom of movement changes btw) is tough to deal with.

They were all WIDE OPEN! They were running in transition for those shots. Why run in transition to get into position for a wide open shot when you are not going to take it when it's in your hands?

 

[infection]

There are a lot of variables in this.

First, if on July 4, 2017, you were told that a year and a half from then that we'd be starting threads disappointed about him while he was averaging 21 points per game, and averaging more points per 36 minutes than anyone from this franchise since Karl Malone's '99-'00 year, then you'd probably be flabbergasted, even if he's only shooting 41%.

Second, he has absolutely struggled. He doesn't appear as "dominant" as he had been. I think there are a lot of explanations for that. He's scouted, and the end of last year we came together strong. Has anyone seen our offense? It's terrible. Who does the defense have to focus on? Do you let Donovan run into the lane, or do you collapse and roll the dice on a kick out to Rubio? Of course Rubio will be open. I think there's a huge mental component and he's forcing a number of issues and not able to relax. When he went to the line for the last time last night, he looked nervous. It's hyped that he's always talking to guys on how to improve. I think he needs to stop listening to people for a while as I think he's over thinking this. I also think he needs more time on the floor with Korver. I'm not sure what the actual numbers are, but he's spending a lot of time in that starting unit that has only Joe Ingles as a floor spacer. He needs more time with Korver and Crowder lineups.

Also, with a few exceptions, it seems a pretty significant amount of Australians here really seem to be peeved by Donovan. Yeah, he probably gets more slack than a lot of guys. Some of that is earned, though. But yes, he's not above reproach. But I feel some of these Aussies have a two-pronged disgust with Mitchell, with the first being that they view his relationship with Simmons as a zero-sum game, and automatically assume any success for Donovan is a slight to Simmons. In similar fashion, they feel the role Donovan assumed last year is what Exum should have gotten, and they feel Quin and Donovan have somehow robbed Exum -- and Australia? -- from what they feel is rightfully theirs. Look, none of us want to see Exum not succeed, but around here we are Jazz fans first. We don't GAF about what team USA does. We also don't GAF whether the guy helping us win games is a Utah native, an American, or even if he were Dutch -- hell, most of us here would even be happy and supportive if our very own dutch could come in and drop 20! The fact is, you guys coming here only for Exum haven't been here for the Corbin era. You're not familiar with CJ Miles, or Morris Almond, or DeShawn Stevenson, or Curtis Borchardt, or Raul Lopez, or the disappointment that was AK. Nor have you watched two opportunities at a title disappear. So, yeah, you're walking into a historical context where excuse us if we don't see Australian Saer Sene as the next Kobe. It's time to stop associating everything DM with Exum and Simmons.

 

[checkbookdoc]

I mention that stuff because DM has said he watched every game and the reports are he is a film room junkie. You can believe him. He says and does the right things. I don't know if he has the fire Rudy does... but I never compared those two or said DM was a better worker.

DM is genuine... I've seen it when there aren't a ton of cameras around. You can trust he will become close to the best player that he can. He will have success on and off the court... just because he does marketing events or travels a lot in the offseason doesn't mean he isn't working or focused.

Also, if you know his back story you'd know he is a worker... chubby kid, worked his *** off, not a highly touted recruit, improves in college, become s a late lotto pick, ROY conversation... he's hit a speed bump... it happens. We don't have all the info, but I have enough to know dude will try like hell to get better... you have your own opinion... that's fine.

Clearly he has worked like crazy to get where he is and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I am just in a cynical mood today. DM was my favorite player last year and I feel like something is off this year (energy, fire, effort). Maybe its health, or team chemistry, or something besides motivation.

 

[8]

Jazz need more players like Mitchell and not less of the one they already have

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

But really, though. If your expectation is that everyone "just says what will benefit them", then why do you trust Gobert?

 

[NUMBERICA]

My bigger issue at this point is the coaching. I have no doubt Mitchell is allowed and encouraged to take these shots.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Maybe its health, or team chemistry, or something besides motivation.

Holy ****. GTFO

 

[Alfalfa]

Threads like these makes fans outrage at "player disloyalty" all the more hilarious.

 

[fishonjazz]

Clearly he has worked like crazy to get where he is and deserves the benefit of the doubt. I am just in a cynical mood today. DM was my favorite player last year and I feel like something is off this year (energy, fire, effort). Maybe its health, or team chemistry, or something besides motivation.

The scheduling plays a part as well

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[NAOS]

His off-season with a bad foot definitely didn’t help. I hope he get into next offseason healthy and with minimal travel plans.

 

[Keefe]

He’s just not fully healthy imo. That and he was never a good shooter.

Anyway, I love the thread. There’s slight variations in frankie’s shtick but this is his stuff I like most.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

This is the dumbest thread I’ve ever seen here. Last year was a lot easier for Mitchell because he caught everyone by surprise, the league has adjusted to him, and this is his second year, he’s still trying to learn how to make it in the nba game, once he does, he will make allstar games and such. Last night is a clear he’s feeling the affects of his slow start to the year, though we’ve all seen improvement, last night was due to him pressing because he feels the pressure to preform well, and has the weight of the offense on his shoulders.

Mods should’ve closed this thread a long time ago. This is going to cause all of the trolls to come on in.

DO THE RIGHT THING MODS!!!

I don't know if he has the fire Rudy does...

I know, and he does. Last years playoffs should’ve told you that.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Monte Ellis?!?!?! Monte? MON-TAY? Elllllllno!

Over reaction of the year...

Sophmore slump. Donovan will get there. Way too much drive to settle for... ELLLLLLLNO!!!