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Outdoor retailers leaving Utah

♪alt13

♪alt13

Well-Known Member
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=43209757&nid=148&title=outdoor-retailer-announces-it-will-not-include-utah-in-future-outdoors-show

Assholes failed to realize that they had a real opportunity to align themselves with the local (and legitimate) fear of lost access, mickey mousification,and replacement of unmaintained dirt roads in favor of scenic byways. Instead they have ceded all influence to the extraction industry. Right when we needed them most they chose political grandstanding to promote their sweatshop labor brands over real political action or an honest attempt at stewardship. Utah may very well become West Virginia. The first mountain top that gets removed I will hold Brian Metcalf personally responsible for.
 
Oh and USFS please stop laying a concrete patio over perfectly good campsites. If I wanted to sit on a patio I would stay home. TIA
 
Well, a translation for those of us east of the Platte River would be helpful.

Though towards the end of the article, it sort of explained the situation.

It's sort of like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The Associated Press reported on Tuesday that companies, including REI, Patagonia and The North Face, ramped up a threat to get the outdoor trade show to leave Utah unless the governor and other elected officials backed off from policies the retailers said threaten public lands.

The AP reported that leaders of about 30 outdoor companies sent a letter to Gov. Gary Herbert that said Utah leaders are threatening the outdoor industry by pushing back against federal land control and management.
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For multiple reasons, I think this is just a joke.

Outdoor retailer is not really effective for big companies anymore, and the owners of the show know it's on its way out.

The state is ridiculous for their position on public lands, but the show leaving has not very much to do with the state, and more to do with the industry changing. It's free marketing for these companies, and they know it.

Protecting the environment is important, but leaving the show has nothing to do with the environment. From what I understand from friends in the industry, they have wanted to leave the show for years, and this is a cop out.
 
b_line said:
For multiple reasons, I think this is just a joke.

Outdoor retailer is not really effective for big companies anymore, and the owners of the show know it's on its way out.

The state is ridiculous for their position on public lands, but the show leaving has not very much to do with the state, and more to do with the industry changing. It's free marketing for these companies, and they know it.

Protecting the environment is important, but leaving the show has nothing to do with the environment. From what I understand from friends in the industry, they have wanted to leave the show for years, and this is a cop out.
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The state isn't ridiculous on public lands. The Feds own/control 66% of Utah. That's what's ridculious.
 
RJF said:
The state isn't ridiculous on public lands. The Feds own/control 66% of Utah. That's what's ridculious.
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I fail to see how that is ridiculous. Plenty of places have national parks and national forests. They bring lots of economic activity while at the same time conserving them for the future.

The state does manage some of its lands fairly well, but others are managed extremely poorly, with overgrazing, oil leaks from pipelines, failing dams, among other problems.
 
b_line said:
I fail to see how that is ridiculous. Plenty of places have national parks and national forests. They bring lots of economic activity while at the same time conserving them for the future.

The state does manage some of its lands fairly well, but others are managed extremely poorly, with overgrazing, oil leaks from pipelines, failing dams, among other problems.
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would send u a video as to why it is ridiculous but it will be labeled right wing and the video would get me banned
 
b_line said:
I fail to see how that is ridiculous. Plenty of places have national parks and national forests. They bring lots of economic activity while at the same time conserving them for the future.

The state does manage some of its lands fairly well, but others are managed extremely poorly, with overgrazing, oil leaks from pipelines, failing dams, among other problems.
Click to expand...

The federal government is the one that's guilty of that. Over grazing is on federal BLM land, as are most of the dams and energy projects.
 
b_line said:
I fail to see how that is ridiculous. Plenty of places have national parks and national forests. They bring lots of economic activity while at the same time conserving them for the future.

The state does manage some of its lands fairly well, but others are managed extremely poorly, with overgrazing, oil leaks from pipelines, failing dams, among other problems.
Click to expand...
Examples would make this claim a lot more compelling.
 
As part of the agreeing to become States, the original 13 colonies had severe limitation on what % of land the Federal Government could own of those to be formed States.

There is no such restriction for States out West. That is why Utah and most other Western States are largely Federally owned. This results in East Coast politicians deciding what happens to the land out West, and that is what the Governor is pushing back against.

I don't know that local leaders could do any better, but it would give the citizens of Utah better representation regarding what happens to the land around us.

In the Eastern States, the Federal Government has no say what happens to those lands, yet those politicians think they should decide what happens out West.

I do understand the balance, and I love preserving the outdoors. This is not a simple issue, and the outdoor retailers that are bailing aren't doing themselves any favor.
 
JAZZGASM said:
As part of the agreeing to become States, the original 13 colonies had severe limitation on what % of land the Federal Government could own of those to be formed States.

There is no such restriction for States out West. That is why Utah and most other Western States are largely Federally owned. This results in East Coast politicians deciding what happens to the land out West, and that is what the Governor is pushing back against.

I don't know that local leaders could do any better, but it would give the citizens of Utah better representation regarding what happens to the land around us.

In the Eastern States, the Federal Government has no say what happens to those lands, yet those politicians think they should decide what happens out West.

I do understand the balance, and I love preserving the outdoors. This is not a simple issue, and the outdoor retailers that are bailing aren't doing themselves any favor.
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It's not rocket science, but on the public record as to how well "local control" works here in Utah. It's not good. Just a simple google search will provide a variety of cases of nepotism, corruption, negligence, and managing lands and other services. Hell, just visit a local state park and compare it to a national park. How the campsites are maintained is a night and day difference. Utah refuses to properly fund health care (Medicaid expansion), law enforcement, and public education.

So keep the land in the hands of the Feds.

Get Educated
 
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b_line said:
Lol. I love the video where the reporter called him out and he blamed "people"
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The buck stops at... someone else! Don't blame me! I just repeat information. Whatever ******** Bannon feeds me, I read.

Well... that's reassuring now isn't it?
 
The Thriller said:
It's not rocket science, but on the public record as to how well "local control" works here in Utah. It's not good. Just a simple google search will provide a variety of cases of nepotism, corruption, negligence, and managing lands and other services. Hell, just visit a local state park and compare it to a national park. How the campsites are maintained is a night and day difference. Utah refuses to properly fund health care (Medicaid expansion), law enforcement, and public education.

So keep the land in the hands of the Feds.
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In case you weren't aware, there are very good reasons that Yuba Lake is not a national park and that Arches is. Given the difference in the quality of land and the disparity in tourism dollars that it attracts the state is doing a pretty good job with their campgrounds. Snow Canyon, for example, certainly isn't Zion, but it has a more appealing campground. How does that fit your argument?

Given your logic I'll bet you think the state is stupid for running campaigns promoting Arches, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Bryce and Zion National Parks instead of lands the state owns like like Starvation Reservoir, Promintory Point, Kodachrome Basin, Timpanogos Cave and Simpson Springs. Fortunately the people running those campaigns have a better grasp on economics than you.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
In case you weren't aware, there are very good reasons that Yuba Lake is not a national park and that Arches is. Given the difference in the quality of land and the disparity in tourism dollars that it attracts the state is doing a pretty good job with their campgrounds. Snow Canyon, for example, certainly isn't Zion, but it has a more appealing campground. How does that fit your argument?

Given your logic I'll bet you think the state is stupid for running campaigns promoting Arches, Canyonlands, Capitol Reef, Bryce and Zion National Parks instead of lands the state owns like like Starvation Reservoir, Promintory Point, Kodachrome Basin, Timpanogos Cave and Simpson Springs. Fortunately the people running those campaigns have a better grasp on economics than you.
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Hilarious!

Running ad campaigns is different than actually maintaining these places and services. Your own post essentially agrees with my view of the Utah legislature. We want all the benefits of civilization (or in this case, tourism) but don't want to shoulder any of the costs.

Just look at how Utah treats public education. We want school's, Blake teachers, and claim that children are god's most precious treasure. Then we stack'em deep and cheap in overcrowded classrooms.

Utah is bark.

Get Educated
 
The Thriller said:
Hilarious!

Running ad campaigns is different than actually maintaining these places and services. Your own post essentially agrees with my view of the Utah legislature. We want all the benefits of civilization (or in this case, tourism) but don't want to shoulder any of the costs.

Just look at how Utah treats public education. We want school's, Blake teachers, and claim that children are god's most precious treasure. Then we stack'em deep and cheap in overcrowded classrooms.

Utah is bark.

Get Educated
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The BLM is the worst land manager in the state and I don't think it's even debatable. You can't use a national park as an example when were talking about BLM land. It really is apples and oranges. No one is talking about transferring Zions to the state of Utah. Which by the way was kept open by the state of Utah when the federal government shutdown. I am far from a fan of Utah legislature but let's not be vitriolic.

Personally I'm not in favor up transferring the lands to the state at this time but I do think that there are going to be some areas where that's the best thing to do.
 
The Thriller said:
Hilarious!

Running ad campaigns is different than actually maintaining these places and services. Your own post essentially agrees with my view of the Utah legislature. We want all the benefits of civilization (or in this case, tourism) but don't want to shoulder any of the costs.

Just look at how Utah treats public education. We want school's, Blake teachers, and claim that children are god's most precious treasure. Then we stack'em deep and cheap in overcrowded classrooms.

Utah is bark.

Get Educated
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Congratulations on completely missing the point. You claimed that the quality of campgrounds in national parks vs state parks is proof of your claim that national management is better. It's not.
 
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