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Physical attributes from the combine out

I thought I'd point out that Derrick Favors measured out with the best No Step Vert Reach AND Max Vert Reach (that is, the height of his hand when he jumps). Yes, just slightly better than Whiteside in both. As such, I think it's fair to say that Favors is a legit center prospect, especially since he will likely be a better man defender than the other top center prospects in the draft (Cousins, Monroe, Whiteside, etc.). Sorta like Amare with D.

I was on the DeMarcus Cousins bandwagon (I know, I know), but if the Jazz can move up and grab Favors, I'd wet myself.

Just imagine how scary (defensively) a frontline of Favors, Sap and AK would be. The activity level of those three is incredible.
 
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Favors as a center? Not so sure about that. I guess he could be a really athletic Shawn Bradley, but shorter.

I'd be SO excited to see Favors on this team. I don't know how much better we would be next year, but the years after that could be potentially awesome as long as we resign AK to a better deal and Deron sticks around. :)
 
No such thing as a can't miss player, just players with less likelihood of being a miss.

I think Wesley Johnson is going to be the best player from this class and average 25 PPG for a long time.

I pretty much agree. Turner could be a very solid pro but I'm not totally sold. Johnson and Favors will have the bet pro careers in this group I think. Maybe Wall too.
 
I thought I'd point out that Derrick Favors measured out with the best No Step Vert Reach AND Max Vert Reach (that is, the height of his hand when he jumps). Yes, just slightly better than Whiteside in both. As such, I think it's fair to say that Favors is a legit center prospect, especially since he will likely be a better man defender than the other top center prospects in the draft (Cousins, Monroe, Whiteside, etc.). Sorta like Amare with D.

I was on the DeMarcus Cousins bandwagon (I know, I know), but if the Jazz can move up and grab Favors, I'd wet myself.

Just imagine how scary (defensively) a frontline of Favors, Sap and AK would be. The activity level of those three is incredible.

These numbers are fairly overrated but I agree with you about Favors. He's the one guy we need to move up to try to get. He seems pretty selfless, defense-oriented and has the physical and mental tools necessary to be a success...against the Lakers and other such long front-courts. I would do a Booze and #9 S&T with the Nets for #3 (Favors) and Lee. Perhaps that's asking too much but a solid, cheap contributor (much cheaper than re-signing Korver) like Lee would help fill out wings situation, especially since AK could be gone after this year.
 
In other words, Davis and Favors are the only good athletes amongst big men in the top 10. More and more I'm beginning to think that the supposed depth at the 4 and 5 in this draft is a fraud.
Um, Udoh's standing jump is only a half inch of Davis's and Favors'. His agility time is more than a half-second less than each, and his 3/4 sprint is within .1 second of both of them.
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-results

And Givony says that he'll be able to play PF or C.
https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Measurements-3477/

Sloan is a terrible in-game strategist (thus my screen name) and not an outstanding developer of talent (Millsap and Matthews are mostly self-taught, CJ took 3+ years, and he never got either 7-footer to be a legit contributor until it was too late), but Udoh's the kind of guy who looks like he'd have the self-motivation to continue progressing. He's not overly tall and he could use 10-20 pounds of muscle, but he's what Utah needs.

Udoh --> Utah.
 
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The Jazz don't have a chance at Favors unless there's even the slightest amount of truth to the Brand Salary Dump rumors. And even then, is trading the entire future (#9, Memphis pick, and AK [financial relief]) just to get Philly on the phone worth it for a guy that didn't do much in the NCAA?

It's not happening. If it does, the Jazz will draft Turner (whether they should or not).
 
not an outstanding developer of talent (Millsap and Matthews are mostly self-taught, CJ took 3+ years, and he never got either 7-footer to be a legit contributor until it was too late), but Udoh's the kind of guy who looks like he'd have the self-motivation to continue progressing. He's not overly tall and he could use 10-20 pounds of muscle, but he's what Utah needs.

Udoh --> Utah.

I like this "any improvements made by Jazz players are not due to Sloan and the fact that some didn't improve is all Sloan's fault" thing you got going there, especially in Miles case, since all 18 year old kids coming into the league mature into the great players they're supposed to be in less than three years. Jermaine O'neal would be proud of this post.

I do agree on Udoh, though. He's my favorite of the likely candidates at 9. The only issue I have is that his ceiling is projected to be low, and he'd be a Verajao type player at #9. Is that kind of player worth a #9 pick?
 
Most of the time, you can't do in the NBA what you couldn't do in college or Europe. That said, I'm not sure how Turner is more likely to be a relative bust than Favors is.

One word: athleticism. Every single time Favors steps onto an NBA court he's going to be one of the best three athletes on it. Every single time Evan Turner takes the floor, he'll never be one of the top 3 athletes on the court. There's obviously other variables, and Favors' athleticism may never translate, but I'd bet on it. The bet on Turner is that he's so skilled his lack of athleticism won't matter. That's not a bet I'd take at 2.
 
I like this "any improvements made by Jazz players are not due to Sloan and the fact that some didn't improve is all Sloan's fault" thing you got going there, especially in Miles case, since all 18 year old kids coming into the league mature into the great players they're supposed to be in less than three years. Jermaine O'neal would be proud of this post.

I do agree on Udoh, though. He's my favorite of the likely candidates at 9. The only issue I have is that his ceiling is projected to be low, and he'd be a Verajao type player at #9. Is that kind of player worth a #9 pick?
Glad you've seen the light on Udoh.

As for Sloan, I will grant you this: it's not as much about the development IMHO as the in-game strategy. Sloan, despite being hard-nosed about effort, let CJ have too much slack during those 3 years. At times there wasn't a better alternative, but often there was. So amidst your sarcasm, you fail to explain Sloan's inconsistency in not enforcing teamwork and effort in some cases (e.g., Miles and Okur, even after they are launching up bricks and not producing on D) and in burying other players (e.g., Koufos after having a respectable rookie stretch and then being buried in February with weeks on end of DNPs. And KK2 is rumored to works hard in practice.)
 
Glad you've seen the light on Udoh.

As for Sloan, I will grant you this: it's not as much about the development IMHO as the in-game strategy. Sloan, despite being hard-nosed about effort, let CJ have too much slack during those 3 years. At times there wasn't a better alternative, but often there was. So amidst your sarcasm, you fail to explain Sloan's inconsistency in not enforcing teamwork and effort in some cases (e.g., Miles and Okur, even after they are launching up bricks and not producing on D) and in burying other players (e.g., Koufos after having a respectable rookie stretch and then being buried in February with weeks on end of DNPs. And KK2 is rumored to works hard in practice.)

Oh, I've liked Udoh from the start. I just worry about him being good value at #9. I guess if he became the ninth best player in his draft overall, he'd be worth it, but there's a lot of talent in this draft. It's hard to see Udoh being the ninth best in the draft.

You'll notice I made no mention of in game strategy. There's a reason for that. Actually, strategy isn't the thing I'd use. I'd use adjustments. It's so odd since I see a lot of per game adjustments that are great. They just don't tend to show up in game.

The thing with Sloan is that he doesn't care if you take shots within the offense. Most of CJ's bad shots came off of curls and down screens. CJ would often take the shot no matter how well executed or defended it was, oftentimes leading to bad shots since he would generally be heavily guarded. That's why the slack was there. Compare to Giricek, who would take bad shots OUT of the offense. Same with Okur. If shots are taken inside the offense, Sloan can accept the results.

Koufos, on the other hand, hadn't (or has yet too) understand how the offense works. The plays are actually quite simple, it's the options off the play that are complicated. If the defender jumps a route, the wing will slip another way, and the pass from the high post has to be there. Stuff like that like. He hasn't gotten a handle of that, something that will show in practice. Compare to Matthews, who has a great grasp of how the offense runs and does the proper cuts and options based on the defense. In that particular case, working hard in practice doesn't mean much when you can't run the offense properly. Age in this case probably has something to do with it, with Matthews I think being three years older than Koufos. It shouldn't be that surprising.

And all this comes back to the draft, where Udoh is A) older and seemingly wiser, B) seems to have a good basketball IQ, C) have the willingness and desire to play hard and play aggressive defense, and D) a willingness to pass the ball. It's why he really should be attractive as a draft prospect to the Jazz.
 
Um, Udoh's standing jump is only a half inch of Davis's and Favors'. His agility time is more than a half-second less than each, and his 3/4 sprint is within .1 second of both of them.
https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-results

And Givony says that he'll be able to play PF or C.
https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Analyzing-the-NBA-Combine-Measurements-3477/

Sloan is a terrible in-game strategist (thus my screen name) and not an outstanding developer of talent (Millsap and Matthews are mostly self-taught, CJ took 3+ years, and he never got either 7-footer to be a legit contributor until it was too late), but Udoh's the kind of guy who looks like he'd have the self-motivation to continue progressing. He's not overly tall and he could use 10-20 pounds of muscle, but he's what Utah needs.

Udoh --> Utah.
Do you realize how many scrubs Sloan has been able to get solid production out of...and then when they leave Utah they are out of the league or irrelevant within a couple of years? I'm not sure where some of the Sloan haters get this stuff.
 
Quite often there are players who are amazing at the college level, but aren't as successful at the pro level because they aren't explosive or athletic enough. Players like Danny Manning, Calbert Cheaney, and Emeka Okafor come to mind. Throw in J.J. Reddick. I think Turner could end up being one of these types of players. Solid pro and good supporting player, but not really an all star.

I think Wesley Johnson and even Paul George could have NBA careers that rival Turner's. I think Paul George is a sleeper in this draft and think he could be a Danny Granger type of player.
 
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Oh, I've liked Udoh from the start. I just worry about him being good value at #9. I guess if he became the ninth best player in his draft overall, he'd be worth it, but there's a lot of talent in this draft. It's hard to see Udoh being the ninth best in the draft.
I'm glad to see that we're still on the same page with Udoh.

You'll notice I made no mention of in game strategy. There's a reason for that. Actually, strategy isn't the thing I'd use. I'd use adjustments. It's so odd since I see a lot of per game adjustments that are great. They just don't tend to show up in game.
It's funny that you mention "adjustment" because I contemplated adopting "InGameAdjustments" as my screen name, but it did not seem to incorporate the fullness of my mantra, which is that the overall strategy (analyzing matchups, putting out lineups that would most likely handle the matchups the best, finding minutes to develop young players) is paramount and sets the stage for--and includes--adjustments (making optimal substitutions, calling timeouts, keeping players appropriately motivated and focused).

The thing with Sloan is that he doesn't care if you take shots within the offense. Most of CJ's bad shots came off of curls and down screens. CJ would often take the shot no matter how well executed or defended it was, oftentimes leading to bad shots since he would generally be heavily guarded. That's why the slack was there. Compare to Giricek, who would take bad shots OUT of the offense. Same with Okur. If shots are taken inside the offense, Sloan can accept the results.
I don't agree that CJ's bad shots mostly came off curls and screens. He regularly launched up long shots and out-of-control fancy plays. Sometimes there wasn't an alternative to CJ on the bench, but whereas Giri and others got buried on the bench, CJ kept getting minutes, even though he was a subpar defender and was sometimes shooting at a higher rate than Deron or Boozer. This year, Miles ended up with almost exactly the FGA rate as D-Will. Maybe the SG needs to be shooting a lot, and he's improved in his shot selection, but he was still a chucker that was immortalized in a JazzFanz nickname some time ago.

Koufos, on the other hand, hadn't (or has yet too) understand how the offense works. The plays are actually quite simple, it's the options off the play that are complicated. If the defender jumps a route, the wing will slip another way, and the pass from the high post has to be there. Stuff like that like. He hasn't gotten a handle of that, something that will show in practice. Compare to Matthews, who has a great grasp of how the offense runs and does the proper cuts and options based on the defense. In that particular case, working hard in practice doesn't mean much when you can't run the offense properly. Age in this case probably has something to do with it, with Matthews I think being three years older than Koufos. It shouldn't be that surprising.
OK fine. I agree that KK2 and KF have both failed to grasp the offense. Yet. But big men take longer to develop, including offensively, and KK2 needed those on-court minutes. Sloan's fatal flaw with Kouf was not continuing to give him minutes when he was doing OK up to February and then got little time, apparently for no particular reason, after that. And that's in his rookie year, whereas the argument has been posed that bigs need years, not months, to develop. Maybe there are other issues going on, but it's easy to infer that his confidence has been crushed, and he regressed as a result. I simply don't agree that running routes in practice is the same feel as in the game, especially if the Jazz are like other teams and let some of their starters rest from practice. Players--and bigs first and foremost--need time in games, on the court. And I don't believe that Sloan tried hard enough to find those minutes, preferring to give them to Millsap. Giving Millsap 25 or 30 or 35 minutes, though, is less valuable than giving one of the bigs 5 or 10 minutes at all. And sure enough, Utah lost vs. the Lakers largely because Fes took a couple of crucial playoff games to develop and did OK on defense but didn't contribute much on offense (and because they really didn't slow down Kobe, either). If Fes had gotten more burn during the regular season, chances are that he could've contributed more because he did become less lost as the playoffs went on.

The play-by-play analysis shows that when Fes was in the game, the Lakers scored significantly less inside than when he was not. And they Jazz outscored or matched the Lakers in every game during that time that Fesenko was on the floor, raw offense and all. Years ago, Sloan should've picked up on the importance of having someone clogging the paint, even if he doesn't score much. Boozer certainly didn't clog the paint. and CB + PM lost the game more than once.

The AK injury also clearly weakened the Jazz, but Utah had the ability to at least win a couple of games without him, and they didn't.
 
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