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Predict the Rudy Gobert trade

Handlogten's Heros said:
Holy **** this is wrong wrong wrong. Boston literally trade all stars to rebuild and were fortunate enough they didn’t have to tank for years cuz the picks they got by trading said all stars hit.

GS has tanked… multiple times. Warriors opted to let Baron walk and rebuild… allowed them to draft Steph… they tanked in the Barnes year… they tanked two years ago but ****ed up the pick… their culture is going just fine.

SA got Duncan by tanking blatantly… they got Robinson by being bad… that’s two number 1 picks and 4 titles.

If you hit when you tank you don’t have to keep tanking. You also don’t have to intentionally lose if you acquire other teams draft assets… it can be a short bottom out.

It’s almost the only way a non-glamour market can win at the highest levels and y’all are like “that winning titles **** is for losers… “
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You are so blinded by your point that you didn't even read what I wrote. I hope you actually read this.

I know GS tanked. And SA tanked. I said that clearly. They tanked because they already had an ace in hand. GS with Curry/Klay and SA with Robinson. Tanking was the icing on the cake as they say. It wasn't planned - it played out due to injuries to Steph and DR.

Boston lost Ray Allen to Miami then decided to trade 36 year old Paul Pierce and 37 year old Kevin Garnett. They didn't tank to build around a roster gem. Ainge just built them from scratch. Completely different situation from GS and SA.

Going back to GS and SA - I have said all along trade Don if he wants to go. If he wants to stay, keep him. Maybe we have a bad start to 22-23, Don gets hurt, gets Lasix eye surgery, whatever. Maybe we tank then. Or maybe we do well enough in the Rudy, Conley and maybe Bojan trades that Ainge starts to build our own Celtics type core.

As for the AD comparison, it's spot on with regards to Don - IF DON WANTS TO LEAVE TRADE HIM. AD wanted gone. It was an easy call to trade him.

Keep Don and hope for a miracle. That's what GS and SA both did.



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MT Steve said:
I think the people who expect us to trade Rudy and still be a competitive playoff team next season are in for a very rude awakening.
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Or be a playoff team at all. We could very well drop into the lottery in that case.


Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 
At this point really if we trade one we should trade both. Otherwise we are looking at being a play-in team at best and then Mitchell asking out if we keep him, or if we keep Gobert we face him declining performance on an increasing salary.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Can we tank and keep Donovan though?
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Can we do ANYTHING and keep Donovan? And is it worth doing ANYTHING to keep Donovan? Donovan has been gone since the COVID season, IMO. Him and his agency have shown little to no regard for this team's cohesion and reputation, has stirred BS through the media for 2 years now, but without standing behind it using his own name because his image is what he cares most about. You have to be incredibly naive to read those reports and not be absolutely certain where they are coming from and what the goals of those reports are. Donovan is gone. Whether it will be this year or next, it doesn't matter, unless you think we can go all the way this coming season(I don't think we can... especially if we trade Gobert this summer). The road has been paved and every single thing coming from Donovan and his agency points to that path. Now the question is what should the Jazz do as a response to this and what is the best thing to do FOR THE JAZZ? IMO right now you can get the best offer for him because with 3 years left on the deal he will have hard time strong-arming us into sending him wherever he wants(i.e. we will have more interest and stronger offers now when we will actually be able to get a legitimate offer from teams like the Kings or the Pacers). Next year, with 2 years on the contract this becomes much more tenuous proposition. Next year he will legitimately be able to guide the trade to whatever destination he wants and this will limit the Jazz in the compensation we can get for him. This BTW is why I don't expect him to ask for trade this year. Because this year the Jazz can have close to zero regard for his wishes when trying to maximize the return we get. Next year... not so much...
 
I think the best idea I’ve heard so far is Gobert + Bogey to ATL for Hunter, Capella, Collins, and #16. I think both teams potentially get what they want out of that deal. Do that and trade Conley to Cleveland for LeVert and see what kind of a team you have.
 
LoPo said:
5-6 years ago nobody wanted to trade Hayward because they were afraid what we would turn into without him.

Now we have a player better than Hayward, and we want to trade him so we can tank.

This fanbase is all over the place. Reality is that teams don't trade guys like Donovan when they are 25. Dame stays. Curry stays (remember people argued trading him back when he was about Don's age), Beal stays.


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I guess we can bank on luck every time a great player leaves us then. Sound strategy.
 
LoPo said:
You are so blinded by your point that you didn't even read what I wrote. I hope you actually read this.

I know GS tanked. And SA tanked. I said that clearly. They tanked because they already had an ace in hand. GS with Curry/Klay and SA with Robinson. Tanking was the icing on the cake as they say. It wasn't planned - it played out due to injuries to Steph and DR.

Boston lost Ray Allen to Miami then decided to trade 36 year old Paul Pierce and 37 year old Kevin Garnett. They didn't tank to build around a roster gem. Ainge just built them from scratch. Completely different situation from GS and SA.

Going back to GS and SA - I have said all along trade Don if he wants to go. If he wants to stay, keep him. Maybe we have a bad start to 22-23, Don gets hurt, gets Lasix eye surgery, whatever. Maybe we tank then. Or maybe we do well enough in the Rudy, Conley and maybe Bojan trades that Ainge starts to build our own Celtics type core.

As for the AD comparison, it's spot on with regards to Don - IF DON WANTS TO LEAVE TRADE HIM. AD wanted gone. It was an easy call to trade him.

Keep Don and hope for a miracle. That's what GS and SA both did.



Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
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I am only blinded by the truth and facts. I read what you wrote... it was dead *** wrong.

You said Boston never tanked... you said that teams never traded all stars to take a step back and had it turn out well... that's like staring at the sun and declaring it to be the moon. Boston tanked pre-KG era openly in the KD draft. It allowed them to have the assets to get Allen and KG... championship. They then traded current all-star KG (don't care how old he was he was a ****ing all star that year) and franchise pillar Pierce who also was one year removed from an AS campaign and not that far off his prior year production. They moved them for draft picks... unprotected picks... not other players... they didn't have a roster gem then you say... ************* they had Rajon Rondo who was like a 26 YO all star who just gave the MVP of the league the business in the playoffs. They did the deal that was best for the franchise though and not some deal that pandered to Rajon.

They didn't benefit from those moves to take a step back??? They also then did the smart thing and moved Rondo a year later to collect more assets. What did they get for their trouble. Well they got Tatum and Brown... they also tanked and got Smart. They got enough assets they used some to acquire IT, Kyrie, and fill out the roster with other competent players and cover up for **** ups by using draft capital to get Horford back and trading for Derrick White. They missed on a bunch of picks but it didn't matter because they sold off **** and stacked the deck... Built from scratch my ***... they built on Brooklyn's dumb ***.

GS took a step back to be in a position to get Steph and Klay... they didn't chase the 8 seed by building around their all star Baron Davis. They let him walk. The year they tanked to get Barnes they TANKED so HARD. I was literally there... I had ins with the arena management company at the time and they gave us box seats all the time cuz everyone knew they ain't trying to win ****. Steph was no sure thing and they weren't even sure it was smart to re-sign him. He was rumored to be offered for D-Will and we passed... They did not think they had a multi-time MVP on that roster.

SA had a MVP caliber player on the roster already... held him out of half the season... and got Duncan... we do that with Don and he's asking out. Robinson was never going to do that. GS had lots of time to build around Steph, Klay, Lee, Bogut... tanking wasn't going to make them ask out. What we are going to try and do is wildly different. We are going to try and keep Donovan... and if we end up in the bottom 5-7 he ain't sticking around.

Tanking ****ing works... its not a silver bullet and you can still eff it up... but the tanking is not the problem... its the other moves. You don't have to go as far as Philly or OKC but selling off the pieces and stacking the deck basically ensures you can hit on like a third of your picks and still build a winner. Building around a star on Donovan's level will get you firmly in the middle and is basketball purgatory.
 
RandyForRubio said:
I remember the days of people arguing how the Warriors tanking and Utah not would end up being good for Utah because we were developing a culture of winning, and they weren’t. Just get talent man, and the more chances you have at it the better.
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They have tanked multiple times during this title run... they whiffed on Wiseman but still.

Let's be clear... every NBA title building strategy will fail more often than not. The thing that gives the most success has been drafting high and hitting on one of those picks. Every now and again you will have a Detroit, Dallas (Dirk was picked high but still), Milwaukee... but most of the titles will be won the way SA, LA, Miami, Boston, Cleveland, GS did... draft high... get lucky or be a glamour market and assemble a super team. We only have one of those routes available.
 
LogGrad98 said:
At this point really if we trade one we should trade both. Otherwise we are looking at being a play-in team at best and then Mitchell asking out if we keep him, or if we keep Gobert we face him declining performance on an increasing salary.
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Sadly I think we are play in material either way. Ingles was a huge loss and Mike was very good for us... not sure what we get in a Conley trade will be good enough and I doubt he plays at as high a level.

The other factor is the West is gonna be a murderers row... Denver and Clips get healthy... say Phoenix slips a bit but everyone like NO, Memphis, Minny stays the same (all those teams could be on the rise)... that's tough. Portland should be better too but I have no faith in their current GM as his moves thus far are cringy. Like just staying as good as we were would likely mean we lose ground... and we didn't have much ground to lose.

Keeping both means we are more in the 6/7 seed convo... trading Rudy I think we are in the 10/11 convo. Trade em both and stack the deck and we are lined up for a top 3-4 pick. We have a window to make a quick recovery if we want.
 
I’d like to see Gobert on the Hawks if we trade him. He had great chemistry with Trae in the all star game. He’d feast on lobs. And I know that we were enamored with DeAndre Hunter the year before he was drafted. Then he stayed in school and became a top 5 pick. I could see this happening.
 
zyzz said:
I’d like to see Gobert on the Hawks if we trade him. He had great chemistry with Trae in the all star game. He’d feast on lobs. And I know that we were enamored with DeAndre Hunter the year before he was drafted. Then he stayed in school and became a top 5 pick. I could see this happening.
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DeAndre Hunter is garbage. Might be worse than DedEx.
 
I could see the Jazz do a deal with Atlanta that brings back John Collins. That would then give the Jazz the option to move Collins to a 3rd team, like Portland or San Antonio, if they prefer.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
I could see the Jazz do a deal with Atlanta that brings back John Collins. That would then give the Jazz the option to move Collins to a 3rd team, like Portland or San Antonio, if they prefer.
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Then we should trade Rudy for Anfernee Simons and start a lineup of Donovan and all his friends - Donovan-Simons-Royce-Paschall-Collins. NBA Championship, here we come!
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I am only blinded by the truth and facts. I read what you wrote... it was dead *** wrong.

You said Boston never tanked... you said that teams never traded all stars to take a step back and had it turn out well... that's like staring at the sun and declaring it to be the moon. Boston tanked pre-KG era openly in the KD draft. It allowed them to have the assets to get Allen and KG... championship. They then traded current all-star KG (don't care how old he was he was a ****ing all star that year) and franchise pillar Pierce who also was one year removed from an AS campaign and not that far off his prior year production. They moved them for draft picks... unprotected picks... not other players... they didn't have a roster gem then you say... ************* they had Rajon Rondo who was like a 26 YO all star who just gave the MVP of the league the business in the playoffs. They did the deal that was best for the franchise though and not some deal that pandered to Rajon.

They didn't benefit from those moves to take a step back??? They also then did the smart thing and moved Rondo a year later to collect more assets. What did they get for their trouble. Well they got Tatum and Brown... they also tanked and got Smart. They got enough assets they used some to acquire IT, Kyrie, and fill out the roster with other competent players and cover up for **** ups by using draft capital to get Horford back and trading for Derrick White. They missed on a bunch of picks but it didn't matter because they sold off **** and stacked the deck... Built from scratch my ***... they built on Brooklyn's dumb ***.

GS took a step back to be in a position to get Steph and Klay... they didn't chase the 8 seed by building around their all star Baron Davis. They let him walk. The year they tanked to get Barnes they TANKED so HARD. I was literally there... I had ins with the arena management company at the time and they gave us box seats all the time cuz everyone knew they ain't trying to win ****. Steph was no sure thing and they weren't even sure it was smart to re-sign him. He was rumored to be offered for D-Will and we passed... They did not think they had a multi-time MVP on that roster.

SA had a MVP caliber player on the roster already... held him out of half the season... and got Duncan... we do that with Don and he's asking out. Robinson was never going to do that. GS had lots of time to build around Steph, Klay, Lee, Bogut... tanking wasn't going to make them ask out. What we are going to try and do is wildly different. We are going to try and keep Donovan... and if we end up in the bottom 5-7 he ain't sticking around.

Tanking ****ing works... its not a silver bullet and you can still eff it up... but the tanking is not the problem... its the other moves. You don't have to go as far as Philly or OKC but selling off the pieces and stacking the deck basically ensures you can hit on like a third of your picks and still build a winner. Building around a star on Donovan's level will get you firmly in the middle and is basketball purgatory.
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Truth and facts? Lol man.

Your definition of "tank" is my definition of "rebuild". Boston did plenty of rebuilding. That's what you do to maximize assets.

Like I said before and I stand by it....

GS didn't tank until they had already drafted Curry and Klay.

Boston never really tanked. They just were awful then drafted well.

San Antonio tanked one time but only because they had major injuries.

The only thing I would add is that GS tanked again to get Wiseman. TBD on if that pays off. But yeah, Boston never tanked. They just rebuilt and rebuilt so well even when they failed in the Kyrie and Kemba experiments.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Sacramento Kings
Orlando Magic
Detroit Pistons
Phoenix Suns
Cleveland Cavaliers
Charlotte Hornets
Washington Wizards
Minnesota Timberwolves
New York Knicks

Just because you have high drafts picks all of the time doesn’t guarantee a damn thing.

You want to hear the players these teams drafted in the lottery and most of these guys were the top-10 over a decade?

Thomas Robinson
Ben McLemore
Nik Stauskas
WIllie Callie-Stein
Marquese Chriss
Marvin Bagley
Victor Oladipo
Aaron Gordon
Mario Hezonja
Jonathan Issac
Mo Bamba
Greg Monroe
Brandon Knight
Andre Drummond
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Stanley Johnson
Luke Kennard
Killian Hayes
Kendall Marshall
Alex Len
Dragan Bender
Josh Jackson
Jalen Smith
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett
Colin Sexton
Isaac Okoro
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Cody Zeller
Noah Vonleh
Frank Kaminsky
Malik Monk
Jan Vesley
Otto Porter
Troy Brown
Rui Hachimura
Deni Avidja
Corey Kispert
Wesley Johnson
Derrick Williams
Kris Dunn
Kristaps Porzingis
Frank Ntilikina
Kevin Knox

Hell look at our lottery picks:

Enes Kanter
Alec Burks
Trey Burke
Dante Exum
Trey Lyles

Your turn.
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Last 5 years... if we go 10 my list gets ridiculously long because of all the Spurs instances...

Teams that tanked/bottomed out/took a big step back - in order to make a conference finals.

- GS - 3 conference finals appearances
- Boston - 3x
- Suns
- Dallas
- Atlanta
- Cleveland
- Blazers
- Nuggets - Nailed the Jokic pick late obvi, but also Murray was a high pick... they had two years of bottoming out and went 50% on their picks.

So 12/20 teams/instances

Teams built on FA

Miami - 2x
Lakers
Clips

So 4 of 20 instances

Other more miscellaneous teams:

Raps - Had a once in a lifetime chance to add an MVP to a good core for dirt cheap. Had upcoming young talent that allowed them to make the trade and still have guys to come up... had a developing Siakham, OG, Powell, Van Vleet, and JV/Wright who were flipped for Gasol.

Bucks - Landed Giannis... will a multi time MVP be drafted outside of the lotto again? Maybe.

Rockets -2x - Hit on a huge trade using some mediocre draft assets.


Point is - all the routes lead to failure... getting high picks is the route that is most often leading to team success at the highest level. So when people say "tanking/rebuilding doesn't work... look at team xyz that always drafts high" its just not accurate at all. The problem isn't that they are drafting high... its they take the wrong guys or aren't willing to be bad enough to draft higher. They chase the 8 seed or make other ill fated moves... and that is where it goes sideways.
 
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