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Questions About Unjust Police Conduct

Tom Pitt

Well-Known Member
[TWEET]903606740817764352[/TWEET]
(Just FYI, I respect and honor law enforcement. If I say anything derogatory to law enforcement in this thread, it is only directed at the police officers that abuse their power and deviate from protecting and serving.. i.e the ones that are incompetent and hurt and/or oppress innocent people.)

Today Rudy retweeted a tweet of an unhinged douche bag police officer abusing his power and arresting and basically assaulting a nurse for upholding the law and doing her job.

here is a vid if you have not seen it yet

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/903606740817764352

The cop's mental state is a big red flag. Basically, he is a weak minded human being and his mindset appears to be he will abuse his power and it is his right to abuse his power. He does not stand to reason the situation out from a rationale standpoint, but instead uses intimidation, brute force, and cowardice to attain results. He's a loose cannon. A blemish to the reputation of good cops.

It is despicable, reprehensible, without honor. He has capitulated the will to protect and serve and in it's place what remains is a crude imitation of law enforcement. And in this moment, this man thinks he is bigger than the law. Bigger than the innocent lives around him (His ego is bigger than Gordon Hayward's... Sorry Gordon, you deserve a jab back). You get a very strong impression this man cares for nobody but himself. Db personified tbtfh.


So I have a few questions I was hoping someone in the know could answer.

Any Jazzfanz posters who are cops or have been cops, feel especially free to chime in because your understanding is likely to the most illuminating.

1- In this particular situation, It was against the law to take blood from the unconscious patient. That being said, why wouldn't this police offer be charged with intent to commit a crime? Is he above the law? Are all police officers, to some degree, above the law while on the job? It would seem so to me.

2- When a cop is a head case, and does something dumb like this, why don't other officers intervene? I mean, I can understand if it's a situation where a safety issue could be created. But In a situation like this, they are at a hospital and the nurse poses no threat to police officer. The Cop himself was the perpetrator of a crime. I mean, the other cops had to be thinking "omg this dude is a freaking mormon and is totally arresting a nurse who is upholding the law." Not to mention it's not like it's just the nurse. The cop is being told this by the nurse's supervisor as well.

3-How can people be expected to feel safe when a dude like this still has a job? Like basically, I just feel like the police department is conceding that, as long as they don't murder someone and thus create a PR nightmare, bad cops will keep their jobs and we just have to deal with it. If they unlawfully arrest us, assault us, commit injustice against us, even when we are upholding the law, it just sucks to be us and thats that. Why is it that when cops abuse their power and authority, they are not held to the same standards as normal citizens? They are not arrested, but instead often reassigned or suspended with pay.


Discuss
 
I was impressed at how the police officer showed what a big man he is. He really taught that trouble maker nurse who's the boss.

This ******* should be digging ditches somewhere and has no business working a position of authority.
 
Because cops are basically above the law since they work so closely with the judicial system. They each scratch each other's backs. Plus precincts will do their best to protect their own.
 
Officers are granted some degree of leeway and "benefit of the doubt" in various situations they deal with. Having said that it only goes so far and there are some hard boundaries in place for very good reasons.

In this specific case this officer should be fired, the nurse has an excellent basis to sue and the fellow officer should be reprimanded. Time to start holding other officers accountable for not stopping clear abuses of power when they see it. I'm equally disappointed in the fellow officer that just stood by and watched this.

But this officer deserves (fair/earned or not) his own due process. An investigation is needed and if found to have abused his power, it looks to me that he did, he should be fired.


I actually favor dramatically increasing the pay and benefits provided to cops (and other first responders) but also increasing the requirements, responsibilities and consequences for the job. Degrees, legal, firearm, self defense, physical and social interaction training...
 
I work in law enforcement, and I have heard the agents here have opinions all across the board (well, no one thinks he was right). Some believe that we don't know the full story, some believe he should be fired, some believe he should be reprimanded, some believe the other officers should have gotten involved and stopped him, others believe they were right to stay out of it. Police officers are human, and they have as many varying opinions of what their job entails as any other profession. The most agreed upon opinion, though, is that this guy makes all of their jobs harder.

The beauty of our camera obsessed society is that it is making it easier for bad officers to be recognized. I'm sure that punishment of these bad cops has not yet caught up, though. It's tough to get through the old boys network.
 
I suppose it depends on the law, I have restrained hundreds of people (no exaggeration) while they have forcibly had bloods taken, both for the police and for medical reasons. It is considered a search of the person but in a lot of situations the individual does not have the right to refuse the search (In Australia you have no right to refuse to be searched by a Police officer if they have a reasonable suspicion that you have done something wrong, carrying a weapon, drugs and so on) As an example if you're arrested for anything and a cop believes you've been driving you will not be able to refuse a blood test if they request it. (most don't cause they can't be bothered with the process.)

In the case of mental health patients they have no right to refuse any search. They have significantly reduced legal rights however the organisation assumes a significantly higher duty of care or legal obligation toward the patients welfare. These laws vary significantly state to state, each state has its own Crimes Act, Police Act and Mental Health act so i can really only state with certainty about what the law is in the state of Victoria.

My level of concern for how this blokes rights have been violated is contingent on what he may have done, frankly for some people I don't give two ****s about their rights. i have conducted a bunch of illegal searches in the interests of public safety and the safety of myself and our staff, if need be I will do so in future without hesitation.
 
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That's the thing. The guy was unconscious from a car accident in which he was hit by the suspect the police were after. The suspect died in the accident. It was against the hospital's policy to take blood from an unconscious party without a warrant or being under arrest. No idea what the police were after in being so insistent on wanting a blood test from this guy.
 
That's the thing. The guy was unconscious from a car accident in which he was hit by the suspect the police were after. The suspect died in the accident. It was against the hospital's policy to take blood from an unconscious party without a warrant or being under arrest. No idea what the police were after in being so insistent on wanting a blood test from this guy.
And the unconscious guy is a reserve police officer.

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That's the thing. The guy was unconscious from a car accident in which he was hit by the suspect the police were after. The suspect died in the accident. It was against the hospital's policy to take blood from an unconscious party without a warrant or being under arrest. No idea what the police were after in being so insistent on wanting a blood test from this guy.

They would not have the right to refuse here, any car accident regardless of blame bloods are taken. The law was change I reckon 6 or 7 years ago after a junkie killed a couple of people in a car accident and refused a blood test because she returned a 0.0 BAC the police were unable to forcibly take bloods because they could not prove she was driving under the influence (of heroin) it affected the severity and scope of criminal charges she faced and she ended up with a fairly light sentence. I believe in any MVA now when someone is hospitalised blood testing for all drivers is mandatory.

Hospital policy and the law are often two separate things, some of the organised stupidity at work is mind boggling when you consider these policies are drawn up by people that are supposed to be responsible adults and reviewed by legal council. As an example we wear body cameras the legality of this is not clear, yet we wear them as a matter of policy.
 
I suppose it depends on the law, I have restrained hundreds of people (no exaggeration) while they have forcibly had bloods taken, both for the police and for medical reasons. It is considered a search of the person but in a lot of situations the individual does not have the right to refuse the search (In Australia you have no right to refuse to be searched by a Police officer if they have a reasonable suspicion that you have done something wrong, carrying a weapon, drugs and so on) As an example if you're arrested for anything and a cop believes you've been driving you will not be able to refuse a blood test if they request it. (most don't cause they can't be bothered with the process.)

In the case of mental health patients they have no right to refuse any search. They have significantly reduced legal rights however the organisation assumes a significantly higher duty of care or legal obligation toward the patients welfare. These laws vary significantly state to state, each state has its own Crimes Act, Police Act and Mental Health act so i can really only state with certainty about what the law is in the state of Victoria.

My level of concern for how this blokes rights have been violated is contingent on what he may have done, frankly for some people I don't give two ****s about their rights. i have conducted a bunch of illegal searches in the interests of public safety and the safety of myself and our staff, if need be I will do so in future without hesitation.



you don't care about the rights mandated by US law? Aren't you suppose to be upholding the law.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm trying to understand.


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They would not have the right to refuse here, any car accident regardless of blame bloods are taken. The law was change I reckon 6 or 7 years ago after a junkie killed a couple of people in a car accident and refused a blood test because she returned a 0.0 BAC the police were unable to forcibly take bloods because they could not prove she was driving under the influence (of heroin) it affected the severity and scope of criminal charges she faced and she ended up with a fairly light sentence. I believe in any MVA now when someone is hospitalised blood testing for all drivers is mandatory.

Hospital policy and the law are often two separate things, some of the organised stupidity at work is mind boggling when you consider these policies are drawn up by people that are supposed to be responsible adults and reviewed by legal council. As an example we wear body cameras the legality of this is not clear, yet we wear them as a matter of policy.

I just read an article put out by Time magazine where the police chief admitted the officer was wrong and that they could not draw blood under these circumstances. So based on that, it was not within the cops authority to get a blood sample without a warrant or consent.

Here is the link

https://twitter.com/time/status/903765674283192320


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So what would you have to say about cops like this dude in the video who clearly is crossing the line? Shouldn't his colleges step in and intervene and stop the cop.

Also, you don't care about the rights mandated by US law? Aren't you suppose to be upholding the law.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I'm trying to understand.


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Im not american and dont give a **** about US law. Im also not a sworn officer but i work for the state, my interest is in maintaining public order and more than anything safety.

Maintaining a proper work place culture is key, somebody going over the top like that should have been pulled up much earlier before it even got near to that. Myself and some of the other senior guys at work will not hesitate to tell junior guards to shut up if they're making a situation worse. They will be spoken to afterwards as well, non learners are moved on.
 
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I just read an article put out by Time magazine where the police chief admitted the officer was wrong and that they could not draw blood under these circumstances. So based on that, it was not within the cops authority to get a blood sample without a warrant or consent.

Here is the link

https://twitter.com/time/status/903765674283192320


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app

I dont see why they were insisting on the search in the first place. As i said before i have no problem with illegal searches if they are founded on a reasoned belief that a person may have a weapon or drugs or something harmful. (A flagged history for example.) I just cant see the reason for it in this case, it seems to be pretty cut and dry that this dude ****ed up.
 
[TWEET]903765674283192320[/TWEET]


I dont see why they were insisting on the search in the first place. As i said before i have no problem with illegal searches if they are founded on a reasoned belief that a person may have a weapon or drugs or something harmful. (A flagged history for example.) I just cant see the reason for it in this case, it seems to be pretty cut and dry that this dude ****ed up.

They were hoping the blood would show traces of alcohol so they could blame that for the cause of the crash rather than their poorly executed police chase.

The story is that police were in a high speed pursuit of a suspect on substances. The suspect crashed head on into a semi truck driver and died. The semi truck driver was hospitalized and that's who the police were trying to draw the blood from. The nurse was protecting the innocent semi truck driver who was just in the wrong place st the wrong time.

Had the police never engaged in a poorly conceived pursuit, this wouldn't have happened.

To protect themselves from litigation/criticism, the police were hoping to draw blood from the semi truck driver in the off chance that it showed amounts of substance so they could blame him for the accident rather than themselves.

This is sick beyond belief.
 
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I dont see why they were insisting on the search in the first place. As i said before i have no problem with illegal searches if they are founded on a reasoned belief that a person may have a weapon or drugs or something harmful. (A flagged history for example.) I just cant see the reason for it in this case, it seems to be pretty cut and dry that this dude ****ed up.

You see nothing wrong with illegal searches?
 
[TWEET]903765674283192320[/TWEET]


I dont see why they were insisting on the search in the first place. As i said before i have no problem with illegal searches if they are founded on a reasoned belief that a person may have a weapon or drugs or something harmful. (A flagged history for example.) I just cant see the reason for it in this case, it seems to be pretty cut and dry that this dude ****ed up.

Yeah, let's just let cops make **** up so they can search whoever they want.
 
You see nothing wrong with illegal searches?

Nope, wait until someone tries to stab you 4 or 5 times and see what you think. By the time that number gets well over 15 times i think you'll stop caring about what's legal. The people you're dealing with have no regard for the law or anyone else, i'd rather go home in one piece at the end of my shift.
 
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