Roster Building From Here - FA and Summer of 2023

[Bodhi]

I’m not debating though. Just wondering.

I have no interest in long-form arguments.

God speed

 

[NUMBERICA]

I would be content to get a 2nd for THT.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Who are the players you actually like?

I like watching Luka. He's an artist at one-man basketball. I wouldn't sell the farm to get him or turn the team over to him.

Why is it more logical to ignore every red flag this guy has developed in the NBA over the years? I mean... Dallas sucks. They're bad. And the whole team has been constructed according to Doncic's wishes. He's had a say in every singe personnel devision for god knows how long. We can't treat him like a victim of circumstance. He made his own bed.

It won't be any different if he miraculously chooses to play in Utah. He plays only one way, and we've seen that it requires a superhuman effort by one guy to win like that deep in the playoffs. It's not sustainable.

I like plenty of players, but I refuse to trust these malcontent stars who want the world to revolve around them. Fool's gold. To me it's fit and team ball above everything else.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I like watching Luka. He's an artist at one-man basketball. I wouldn't sell the farm to get him or turn the team over to him.

Why is it more logical to ignore every red flag this guy has developed in the NBA over the years? I mean... Dallas sucks. They're bad. And the whole team has been constructed according to Doncic's wishes. He's had a say in every singe personnel devision for god knows how long. We can't treat him like a victim of circumstance. He made his own bed.

It won't be any different if he miraculously chooses to play in Utah. He plays only one way, and we've seen that it requires a superhuman effort by one guy to win like that deep in the playoffs. It's not sustainable.

I like plenty of players, but I refuse to trust these malcontent stars who want the world to revolve around them. Fool's gold. To me it's fit and team ball above everything else.

It was a simple question. You do you.

 

[fishonjazz]

So now we want to bring in a guy who will only accept an extreme version of heliocentric basketball, comes into every training camp overweight and spends half a season playing himself into shape, requires a roster tailor-made for him, and may already be past his prime in a couple of years?

That's some tremendous downside

 

[fishonjazz]

It was a simple question. You do you.

Steph is a chucker who takes too many ill advised 35 footers, Gianni's can't shoot the three, jokic is too big and lumbering to defend the perimeter, embiid is a ball hog black hole who doesn't get enough assists
NBA players suck

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Steph is a chucker who takes too many ill advised 35 footers, Gianni's can't shoot the three, jokic is too big and lumbering to defend the perimeter, embiid is a ball hog black hole who doesn't get enough assists
NBA players suck

OK.

So we should sell the farm to get Luka if a window like that suddenly opens? Trade away most of our young talent, plus a truckload of FRP's? Because that's what it would take.

Please tell me why. And note that "Because it's Luka" isn't a good enough reason. Neither is "Duh, you should be called Tremendous Downside".

Making that Luka trade would turn us into another Dallas. The current version. One way ticket to basketball hell.

 

[Elizah Huge]

OK.

So we should sell the farm to get Luka if a window like that suddenly opens? Trade away most of our young talent, plus a truckload of FRP's? Because that's what it would take.

Please tell me why. And note that "Because it's Luka" isn't a good enough reason. Neither is "Duh, you should be called Tremendous Downside".

Making that Luka trade would turn us into another Dallas. The current version. One way ticket to basketball hell.

If we can keep Lauri, Kessler and Ochai then yes we should absolutely do it.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

If we can keep Lauri, Kessler and Ochai then yes we should absolutely do it.

Right.

That's not happening. Anyone who's thinking that we can get Doncic with some picks and a pu-pu platter of meh is fooling themselves.

Dallas would literally be looking for the biggest haul in NBA history.

 

[HermanG]

OK.

So we should sell the farm to get Luka if a window like that suddenly opens? Trade away most of our young talent, plus a truckload of FRP's? Because that's what it would take.

Please tell me why. And note that "Because it's Luka" isn't a good enough reason. Neither is "Duh, you should be called Tremendous Downside".

Making that Luka trade would turn us into another Dallas. The current version. One way ticket to basketball hell.

One thing I'm curious about is you object every trade scenario, seem to dislike most prospects and oppose tanking for higher pick.

So what is a good solution? Who is a good player? How do we build a contender?

 

[hgb]

If we can keep Lauri, Kessler and Ochai then yes we should absolutely do it.

The big question is obviously, say that Luka is available: What do you give up to get him?
I haven't done calculations, but from a quick glance I think we need to trade Someone™ to match salaries this summer, but e.g. THT would be more than enough.
Looking at our guys, outside of the ones we really don't want to give up, no one really moves the needle for Mavs.

How many picks are talking about here?

 

[homeytennis]

I predict we will bring in this year's equivalent of Uncle Jeff and Ed Davis either through trade or free agent signing and probably overpay for them.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The big question is obviously, say that Luka is available: What do you give up to get him?
I haven't done calculations, but from a quick glance I think we need to trade Someone™ to match salaries this summer, but e.g. THT would be more than enough.
Looking at our guys, outside of the ones we really don't want to give up, no one really moves the needle for Mavs.

How many picks are talking about here?

You give up basically what it takes minus key relevant rotation players after you get the go ahead from Luka's camp he wants to be in Utah.

 

[hgb]

You give up basically what it takes minus key relevant rotation players after you get the go ahead from Luka's camp he wants to be in Utah.

Given a trade this summer, we'll have this to trade by my calculations:
* Jazz picks in '28 and '30 (the OKC pick is a FRP in '26 at latest)
* Cavs picks in '25, '27, '29
* LAL pick in '27 (1-4 protected)
* Wolves pick in '25, '27, '29 (;29 pick 1-5 protected)
* Whoever the Wolves pick in '23
* Pick trade with Wolves/Cavs in '26
* Pick trade with Cavs in '28

That's 9 unprotected picks, 2 lightly protected picks, 2 pick swaps. There is no way I'm giving up all of that for Luka. A bunch of it, sure, but no way they get 9 picks.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Given a trade this summer, we'll have this to trade by my calculations:
* Jazz picks in '28 and '30 (the OKC pick is a FRP in '26 at latest)
* Cavs picks in '25, '27, '29
* LAL pick in '27 (1-4 protected)
* Wolves pick in '25, '27, '29 (;29 pick 1-5 protected)
* Whoever the Wolves pick in '23
* Pick trade with Wolves/Cavs in '26
* Pick trade with Cavs in '28

That's 9 unprotected picks, 2 lightly protected picks, 2 pick swaps. There is no way I'm giving up all of that for Luka. A bunch of it, sure, but no way they get 9 picks.

Don’t think we can trade the swaps as that changes the deal for the other team in the swap, but yeah.

I don’t think the demand/trade happens quite yet, but between now and 2025 this is pretty much what the Jazz can/will have in the chamber. Another one of the benefits of picks years in the future is it’s a way of keeping the liquidity on-hand and not spent/reinvested/whatever.

 

[Hearsky]

I predict we will bring in this year's equivalent of Uncle Jeff and Ed Davis either through trade or free agent signing and probably overpay for them.

So, Rudy Gay is coming back next year. Is that what you are trying to articulate?

 

[homeytennis]

So, Rudy Gay is coming back next year. Is that what you are trying to articulate?

We are probably bringing back Haywood.

 

[hgb]

Don’t think we can trade the swaps as that changes the deal for the other team in the swap, but yeah.

I don’t think the demand/trade happens quite yet, but between now and 2025 this is pretty much what the Jazz can/will have in the chamber. Another one of the benefits of picks years in the future is it’s a way of keeping the liquidity on-hand and not spent/reinvested/whatever.

We can trade the swap, though. We own the right to the best pick between Jazz, Cavs and Wolves in '28, so we can add that to a trade. Probably another swap, so Mavs would get the best of Mavs, Cavs, Wolves, Jazz. It definitely adds value to our '28 and '26 picks.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Was Dirk a better “shot creator” than Lauri? I don’t exactly remember him going iso very often. He very much played like Lauri and was efficient and didn’t dominate (and kill) ball movement.

Seems to me that we have a top tier talent already. The issue is with the rest of the roster. A roster that starts KO, has the 2023 version of Rudy Gay playing significant mins instead of a 2010 like version, and a bunch of rookies that need more experience. Replace Gay with Jaden McDaniels and add just Desmond Bane and this team is a top 5 team in the league. This team has a solid core to build around.

Dirk by a lot. Can Lauri get better sure, but Dirk was a dawg with the ball and the shot clock winding down.

And he shot those maybe a handful of times a game. The rest were set up by Nash, Harris, and later Kidd. He was devastating because he was so accurate and his shot was unblockable. Dirk benefited by having great systems and great point guards. He’s not exactly a great iso player in my view.

The series vs the Heat, he put on a clinic it was basically him and roleplayers. Kid was 37 and way over and Jason Terry

If I were the Jazz and I got Austin Reaves I wouldn’t be starting him at the two. He’d be at the one. Especially because Agbaji is projecting as the starting two next season. That would be a really good backcourt

Won’t dispute this at all I’ll always defer to you, but I’m not sure he’s ever been a full time pg can he handle it?

@NUMBERICA was right about Reaves, Hill Billy Kobe is nice af.
Sign him and draft Gradey D!ck

D!ck, Kessler, Lauri, and HBK would be the 4 horseman of the apocalypse

Sounds good to me… this won’t actually trigger the end of the world will it?? Lol

So now we want to bring in a guy who will only accept an extreme version of heliocentric basketball, comes into every training camp overweight and spends half a season playing himself into shape, requires a roster tailor-made for him, and may already be past his prime in a couple of years?

If the jazz had a chance to trade for prime MJ, you wouldn’t?

Redundant but those wins last week are going to hurt. While they were fun wins, they were pointless wins.

Speak for yourself. Not fun at all

 

[NUMBERICA]

We can trade the swap, though. We own the right to the best pick between Jazz, Cavs and Wolves in '28, so we can add that to a trade. Probably another swap, so Mavs would get the best of Mavs, Cavs, Wolves, Jazz. It definitely adds value to our '28 and '26 picks.

The swap is an agreement between team A and team B. If team A is the recipient of the swap, they cannot trade it to team C because that nullifies the original agreement with team B because the terms have changed for B.

The Jazz also don’t own a swap from the Wolves for ‘28 BTW. They do for ‘26.