FOR the summer league, it doesn't help if the guy you are passing to cannot convert an open shot nor if hayward even got the chance to handle the ball given that sundiata was a complete hog
Sanders is much better than Hayward
- Thread starter oldtimer
- Start date
FOR the summer league, it doesn't help if the guy you are passing to cannot convert an open shot nor if hayward even got the chance to handle the ball given that sundiata was a complete hog
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
He only had 1.7 assists per game at Butler last year.
Mike Dunleavy Jr. in Indiana once he finally got out of the chaotic awful system that is Golden State:
19 PPG
3.5 APG
5.2 RPG
83% FT
42% 3FG
48% FG
1 steal per game
God, what a horrid outcome that would be!
Hayward's "small" college = trip to the NCAA championship game.
Babbit's large college that is the University of Nevada = trip to the 2nd round of the NIT
I learned all that, as well. All of that is a comparison of a potential PG with the actual PG. None of that means Parker was not outplayed Lopez, even if Lopez dribbled higher.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...anybody as tall as Hayward and Klinko can't help but have a high dribble! And that's why they don't dribble that much, pass more and have to use other assets to contribute!
You are completely missing the point. No, the logic is not such that if player A's team is ranked #2 and player B's team is ranked #5, player A is better than player B. The point here is that leaders of both of these teams took their teams to the highs of NCAA ranking, which is a huge credit to guys like Hayward and Wall. Babbit was unable to take his team anywhere, and that is a big knock on him as a prospect. He was not a difference maker in NCAA. Hayward and Wall were, and that is a big credit to them. Hayward's team was not ranked before he got there. When he did, they made top 25 ranking with him as freshman, and #2 ranking with him as a sophomore. The guy was a difference maker in NCAA. Babbit was not. You get the point now?
ncoloradojazz
Banned
Hayward wasnt a leader of butler. Best guard they had was shelvin Mack. ALso we wouldnt need babbit to be a vocal or team leader. WE got best pg in game for that. Go study up on butler cuz the games i saw in the tourny it was mack and not hayward who carried them plus they also got a very nice big man wgho i forgot name. Butler was stacked with talent compared to nevada. Babbit will be a better pro then hayward. Bigger,stronger, more athletic, just as good of a stoke. Dont know how you can justify caLLING HAYWARD a better player.So we drafted hayward to be a leader then? Um...No we did not. The jazz whiffed its that simple. Not saying hayward wont be a nice 7th or 8th man off the bench but babbit will have a better and longer career..Hayward wasnt even best player on butler and wasnt the team leader. Do you watch college ball at all or are you just a stat nerd?
ncoloradojazz
Banned
Shelvin Mack was the leader of butler. Go ask their fans if you dont believe me?
All the attention was on Hayward, thats why Mack and others did so good.
Your argument now boils down to discounting the difference Hayward made in NCAA, because Mack was better? This is pathetic. KOC already said that under 19 wold champion Team USA coach declared Hayward was the best player on the team. He also made all tournament team. Mack was on the same team, but did not get these accolades. Hayward also was Horizon player of the year (I suppose the guys that voted for him do not watch college basketball either?) and MVP of the West Region (perhaps these folks also don't watch college ball?). It is beyond doubt Hayward made a difference in NCAA. The fact you are even debating that and don't want to acknowledge something that obvious, shows your bias against him, hence completely destroying your credibility on the subject.
Mack is a good player too, sure, but it is simply ridiculous to discount Hayward as a difference maker in NCAA because Mack was good also.
Hayward actually accomplished something during his College career. Led Team USA to worlds title. Was best player on that team according to the coach. Led Butler twice to national rankings, including #2 ranking last year. Babbit has accomplished nothing in NCAA. I am not even saying he should have gotten to NCAA title, but to even get his team ranked. Hell, even Snyder got Nevada ranked once, if I remember correctly. Plus Babbit is a year older. Hayward was clearly a better prospect (and already has shot 20% better from the floor in the summer league than Babbit).
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
When was the last time a guy was named conference player of the year without being the best player on his team that season? I guess it could happen.
IMO, both Gordon and Luke were excellent prospects. The "tell" for me was KOC's pre-draft comments about mismatches. He said that when you can get a guy that would create mismatches at his position you have to consider that player, regardless of position. I think he was talking about Hayward. And Ty Corbin has said they consider "Flash" a SG.
Luke is strictly a SF. And perhaps as a SF, he MIGHT be a better prospect than Hayward. But if Gordon indeed does have the ballhandling and playmaking abilities to be a SG (and can defend the 2), then WOW! How many teams can guard a 6'8" shooting guard? And Deron is a big PG. The Jazz would have one of the biggest guard combos in the league. And that's another reason why the acquisition of Raja is key. If the Jazz face a quicker off-guard, you can match him up against Bell. The more I think about it, especially given the comments of Ty Corbin, the more I think Hayward may see minutes at the 2 and CJ will remain at SF.
Hopper
Banned
Happened with Deron, eh, Glass? Dee Brown was named the player of the year by Sporting News, and I think he was also named Big 10 player of the year, with Deron on the team. If I recall correctly, Brown was first team all-american and Luther Head, another one of Deron's teammates was named to the second team. Deron was 3rd team, or mebbe honorable mention, I forget.
They where all better College players than Dwill though, Dwill was the clear cut better Pro prospect though, no one argued that.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Yes, I did think about the Deron/Dee situation before posting. As PRex pointed out, Dee had a better college season. Unfortunately for Brown, he was just too undersized and too poor a shooter to make it as a pro. Deron was considered the better prospect and was in the top-5 on every draft board.
Hayward had a better year than Mack this year: 16/8/2 ain't too shabby. Babbitt also had fantastic numbers 22/9/2 - even better on face value than Hayward.
I still think the argument comes down to the fact the Jazz think Gordon could develop into a starter at either SF or SG and potentially create a huge mismatch at the 2. Babbitt MIGHT be able to eventually play some backup PF, but most likely, he always be a SF. And Hayward was taken for his ballhandling and playmaking skills. Jazz think he can initiate the offense when needed. You don't get that with Babbitt.
Hayward had a better year than Mack this year: 16/8/2 ain't too shabby. Babbitt also had fantastic numbers 22/9/2 - even better on face value than Hayward.
I still think the argument comes down to the fact the Jazz think Gordon could develop into a starter at either SF or SG and potentially create a huge mismatch at the 2. Babbitt MIGHT be able to eventually play some backup PF, but most likely, he always be a SF. And Hayward was taken for his ballhandling and playmaking skills. Jazz think he can initiate the offense when needed. You don't get that with Babbitt.
You were so upset with selection of Humphries that you completely smashed your remote, yet Babbit is #1 forward on your list. Look at both of these guys, and resemblance is striking. Both extremely strong, very athletic, nearly the same size. Both put up great numbers for garbage teams and never taken their teams anywhere. And KHump was only 19 at draft time and spent one year in NCAA. Babbit is 21. So, I just don't see how you can on one hand smash your remote when we picked KHump at 14, and at the same time feel Babbit would be great top 10 selection. I mean, if anything, after you being so mad we picked KHump, and KHump actually turning out to be a near bust, you should be more cautious of a guy like Babbit (especially considering Humphries did at 19 what Babbit has done at 21). There must be something wrong with your evaluation criteria.
Besides, your record does not seem all that great. I have no idea why you liked Jefferson so much when there is no way to judge him for guys like us - who have not seen him work out - because they were not in NCAA, where at least we can make some kind of judgement. You just got lucky Jefferson turned out great. Other highly touted HS guys (like Green) didn't. There is simply no way for us to accurately evaluate a HS player. As far as Parker vs Lopez, Parker certainly had good career in Europe, but he played for a much inferior League that Lopez did. Raul was 2 years older, but more accomplished as a national Spanish team member and playing in the best club in Europe at young age (in spite of high dribble). So, it was a tough call on who is better. Parker was more of a scorer, Raul more of a passer. Who knows what would have happened if he did not blow his knee. For a PG, whose main attribute is speed, busted knee alters entire career. And as you said, you missed out on Deron (who by the way shares an attribute with Hayward in that they both led their teams to meaningful accomplishments in NCAA). So, it's not like your evaluation was so right before. Besides, I already mentioned that Babbit should be down on your list based on your own admission of destroying remote control upon his selection.
ncoloradojazz
Banned
As someone who watched all the summer league games i was far more impressed with babbit
ncoloradojazz
Banned
Humphries cant dribble and babbit has some handles so stop the hating borat.. I saw humphries in college and could see he would be a marginal player at best