Sorry Jazz fans – Ben is the NBA Rookie of the Year

[Archie Moses]

Oops

 

[Getting Traded]

People do have the freedom to use whichever word, for the most part, depending on context. I'm not trying to pass a law about this. I'm making a request in the name of human decency. There's no legal coercion or threat of force going on here.



You don't know what abilities/disabilities people on this board have, nor do you know if they care for someone with disabilities.



There's really no good reason why it needs to be said as an insult, ever, actually. Nothing is "just a word," either. Otherwise, you wouldn't be fighting so hard for the "right" (that no one is trying to deny you) to use it.



Actually, no, I don't.



In a truly egalitarian society, people would inherently recognize that human dignity precludes using someone's disability as a way to insult them or someone else, actually. I don't now what kind of utopia you're envisioning where people go around happily calling each other the N word and R word for the hell of it, but that's not the good world I have in mind.

Now that we're on the subject, you mention "idiot." "Idiot" is an interesting example of language shift. That word has changed meaning over the decades/centuries. Originally, it was used to refer to people with intellectual disabilities, almost in a scientific sense. Doctors and legislators would talk about "idiots" in a technical sense. Between the 19th and 20th centuries "idiot" became more of a slur because people used it that way. So the medical establishment came up with a more "progressive" word, something more technical. "Mental retardation" became the preferred polite and technical way to talk about disabilities. Over time, that term was also co-opted as an insult. Later in the 20th century and through today, "intellectual disability" became the preferred nomenclature. Maybe decades from now the word "retard" will become as disconnected from disabilities as the word "idiot" has. We're not there, though, which is why I ask people (not legislate) that they consider not using that word.

I don't agree with you; it smacks of censorship. It's like euphemism. And as you have noted, the meaning of words evolve. Why do we have to sugar coat our words. Isn't this what Lenny Bruce and George Carlin were talking about. Yes, I agree we need to be sensitive to the audience and person when we use those word, but they are just words, and in fact, I never use the word, ******. But to my surprise a lot of black people use the word among themselves.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

Did you pay yourself on the back for this diatribe? Make sure you never use idiot, moron or lame in any online or in person discourse.

I address "idiot" and "moron" above, both of which have fallen away so far from their original meaning that most everyone uses them unawares. I don't say "lame," though, you're right. Why not be ore precise in my language? Experiment, be creative with language.

And yes, I "pay myself on the back" for this diatribe...

 

[Rubashov]

Archie, I understand what you're saying too. I rarely if ever use it myself. But we should have the freedom to use whatever words we choose, just be sensitive about who you are saying them to, like you don't say to a woman, you have a really nice c..t, unless you're with some kinky lady who gets off on such things -- btw, I never use that word, except maybe in private when I get really angry and no one is around.

Man im forever using the c word, although Australians often do, sometimes for the sake of the ladies at work we say paddlepop instead (its an ice cream) and think about having a lick.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Dude, we just went over this.

Oh yeah, my bad. Dont post when you get home from the bar. Its bad for your health. I apologize for using that word, its not cool.

 

[Getting Traded]

I ascribe to the centuries old nursery rhyme and one we should reflect on when someone insults us:

Sticks and stones will break my bones
But words will never hurt me.

They're just bleepin words, they only have power to hurt you if you give it to them.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

I don't agree with you; it smacks of censorship. It's like euphemism. And as you have noted, the meaning of words evolve. Why do we have to sugar coat our words. Isn't this what Lenny Bruce and George Carlin were talking about. Yes, I agree we need to be sensitive to the audience and person when we use those word, but they are just words, and in fact, I never use the word, ******. But to my surprise a lot of black people use the word among themselves.

That's because the n word is context-dependent. People have been known to take back words that were originally used to demean them. "Mormon" began as a term of denigration. "Queer" as well. Now you can take "Queer studies" and "Mormon studies" courses at a university.

If you're so fundamentally opposed to censorship then how do you explain your avoidance of racial slurs? Again, I am not arguing that there should be laws about this, or that someone doesn't have the "right" to use these words. I am asking people to think about what the words mean, and how they might be painful for some people to hear. I really don't think it's so hard to make small adjustments like this. I was able to do it, after all.

 

[Archie Moses]

Would not want to go to a stand up comedy act with LifeOnaPlate tbh.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

I ascribe to the centuries old nursery rhyme and one we should reflect on when someone insults us:

Sticks and stones will break my bones
But words will never hurt me.

They're just bleepin words, they only have power to hurt you if you give it to them.

I think this is a fine sermon to preach to myself. I even talk to my kids about this, again, because I think resilience and grit are important character traits. When I'm being honest, though, I recognize that words actually are powerful. Words have consequences and can cause some of the most severe and lasting pain we experience. I still remember hurtful things I said to my dad twenty years ago, before he died, that I regret to this day. Words definitely hurt. I want my kids to know that, too. I want to remember it myself, because I screw up with language, too.

The little poem is a nice little way to remind myself not to let someone have too much control over me with their words. But words still have consequences.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Would not want to go to a stand up comedy act with LifeOnaPlate tbh.

I would, he is very funny and enjoyable person to be around.

 

[One Brow]

I don't care for this "politically correct" b.s. It's fake and dishonest, and retarded. People should use whatever words they want. If it shows their bias or prejudice, so be it. At least it's transparent. Political correctness is very similar to euphemism, a common method of concealing truth.

I can believe the virtues of simple politeness are beyond your comprehension.

 

[One Brow]

But it depends on your audience and I don't think it applies here.

Because no one in here has kids with varying mental disabilities?

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

I would, he is very funny and enjoyable person to be around.

Oh man warm fuzzies in here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We need to refocus this thread on how terrible ben simmons is and reunite before the big game.

 

[Getting Traded]

That's because the n word is context-dependent. People have been known to take back words that were originally used to demean them. "Mormon" began as a term of denigration. "Queer" as well. Now you can take "Queer studies" and "Mormon studies" courses at a university.

If you're so fundamentally opposed to censorship then how do you explain your avoidance of racial slurs? Again, I am not arguing that there should be laws about this, or that someone doesn't have the "right" to use these words. I am asking people to think about what the words mean, and how they might be painful for some people to hear. I really don't think it's so hard to make small adjustments like this. I was able to do it, after all.

I agree with you on this. But it has veered off into the realm of political correctness which I totally oppose. Developmentally Disabled, what a dumb term. I actually use it myself. The problem with retard (its history as a word) is that it gives a real picture of a person who has Down's Syndrome and people find that repulsive. I'm being honest here. When I started to work with people who had such problems, I did find it repulsive but once I got to know them, it didn't bother me any longer. I think the word retard conjurs up a disagreeable image to people, so now we are supposed to avoid facing the reality that these people have some severe disabilities and cover it up with developmentally disabled, a euphemism that is the dishonest use of language. I was an English teacher and I used to cover euphemism in my classes. But I do try to be sensitive about the words I use.

I'm trying to explain my belief. You don't have to agree with it.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

We need to refocus this thread on how terrible ben simmons is and reunite before the big game.

Maybe we've made some new recruits to the kinder language campaign, though.

But yes, back to the reason for the post. I confess last night I came here with a bag of popcorn in hand, ready to go.

 

[One Brow]

When I ask someone not to use a word like "retard," I'm implicitly inviting them to start reevaluating their prejudices. They can begin changing their mindset by paying more attention to their language.

There is also a feedback effect. The language you use changes how you think, just as when you force yourself to smile, you start feeling happier.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe we've made some new recruits to the kinder language campaign, though.

But yes, back to the reason for the post. I confess last night I came here with a bag of popcorn in hand, ready to go.

I try not to use that word.. it was such a huge part of my Junior High vocabulary... and then I used the word around someone that had a handicapped little brother. I wanted to disappear I felt so bad... awkward apology and she was super cool, but I am sure she lost some respect for me... she wasn't wrong.

Also, Ben Simmons sucks at shooting basketballs.

 

[Getting Traded]

I can believe the virtues of simple politeness are beyond your comprehension.

You haven't read my full comments. I did say I am sensitive about the language I use and I am more than simple polite in social situations. Read it fully. I'm trying to show how it is a function of dishonesty. But in some situations it is better to be dishonest so as not to hurt someone, I agree with that.

 

[LifeOnaPlate]

I agree with you on this. But it has veered off into the realm of political correctness which I totally oppose. Developmentally Disabled, what a dumb term. I actually use it myself. The problem with retard (its history as a word) is that it gives a real picture of a person who has Down's Syndrome and people find that repulsive. I'm being honest here. When I started to work with people who had such problems, I did find it repulsive but once I got to know them, it didn't bother me any longer. I think the word retard conjurs up a disagreeable image to people, so now we are supposed to avoid facing the reality that these people have some severe disabilities and cover it up with developmentally disabled, a euphemism that is the dishonest use of language. I was an English teacher and I used to cover euphemism in my classes. But I do try to be sensitive about the words I use.

Like I said, I'm not arguing from within the category of political correctness. My argument is rooted in recognizing the basic human dignity of everyone regardless of particular disability. The repulsion you describe is a common bias, and our casual use of words like "retarded" serves to normalize and reinforce it. We can do little things to change that. My awakening about the word "retarded" actually happened at a Jazz game, of all places. I shouted that one of the refs made a "retarded" call. Then I saw a family down the row with a person who had a disability. I don't think that person heard me, but I think the family members did. And I knew what I'd done in that moment, and I knew there was no context in which I'd feel OK saying that ever again. Years later I wrote a master's thesis on changing concepts of intellectual disabilities within Mormonism. I've spent a lotg of time thinking about it. It means something to me.

Now back to Simmons.