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Speak the Truth or Forever Hold you Tongue

oldtimer said:
I not looking for an argument, but I've started three threads in a week only to have GVC mention Larry Sanders. I tried to PM GVC to beg him to ignore me, but he seems intent on hijacking all my threads. I acknowledge I wanted Paul George and Larry Sanders more than Hayward. Now that we have five power forwards I would say Paul George was the better pick. That being said even when I try to acknowledge Hayward's good play of late, GVC is there. GVC is nothing more than Message Board tough guy trying to prove a point. I tried to PM him to ask him to ignore me, but I guess I'm not message board savy enough. I guess I will have to go back to reading the message board rather than posting.
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Trust me, GVC is not a tough guy. I mean, I've never met him but he seems like sort of a bitch. That said, are you implying that Hayward is a power forward? I only ask because you state how we have five power forwards (we won't count any of them as centers, that's okay) and then go on to say that George therefore would have been the better pick. Can you please expound? This makes about as much sense as drafting Larry Sanders would have made.
 
Krazeeyekilla

I did not mean to imply that Hayward is a power forward. What I meant to say is that at the time of the draft I liked Larry Sanders and Paul George more than Hayward. Larry Sanders being a power forward and Paul George being a 3. If the need on the team was power forward I would have drafted Larry Sanders. If the need on the team was outside shooting I would have drafted Paul George. I would not have drafted Hayward. I was hoping the team would resign Mathews and keep Korver. The Jazz ended up getting Jefferson and Favors to add to Memo and Millsap. Obviously being over stocked with bigs and needing outside shooting I would have drafted George if I had been the GM and was making the decision. Some people want to perpetually remind me that I liked Sanders, they conveniently forget that I also liked George. I have never run from my opinion. I still like George and Sanders. However, Hayward is growing on me and playing defense (which I never believed he would be able to on the NBA level).
 
oldtimer said:
Thee Jazz fan you speak truth about the playoffs, but say the jazz get the six pick and the 13th pick. We could move up in the draft. To me that is more important than a first round exit and only one draft pick.
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Where is the logic in losing. This team hasn't hasn't figured out the whole team chemistry thing, if they don't figure out how to win as a team this year they may lose next year as well then both Harris and Jefferson both won't resign. Who wants to play for a loser?

I'm a fan of the team not one or two players alone. I want to see them win every year the Clips draft in the lottery where has that gotten them?

The question you have to ask yourself is do you want a culture of winning or loosing. I'll take winning every time.

That be da truth!!!
 
oldtimer said:
Krazeeyekilla

I did not mean to imply that Hayward is a power forward. What I meant to say is that at the time of the draft I liked Larry Sanders and Paul George more than Hayward. Larry Sanders being a power forward and Paul George being a 3. If the need on the team was power forward I would have drafted Larry Sanders. If the need on the team was outside shooting I would have drafted Paul George. I would not have drafted Hayward. I was hoping the team would resign Mathews and keep Korver. The Jazz ended up getting Jefferson and Favors to add to Memo and Millsap. Obviously being over stocked with bigs and needing outside shooting I would have drafted George if I had been the GM and was making the decision. Some people want to perpetually remind me that I liked Sanders, they conveniently forget that I also liked George. I have never run from my opinion. I still like George and Sanders. However, Hayward is growing on me and playing defense (which I never believed he would be able to on the NBA level).
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The problem is your arrogance. You had declared Hayward a bust after watching a handful of summer league games, and, using the same methodology, appointed Sanders as the next Dwight Howard. Remember this?

I'll play along. I knew Elder Hayward was a bust before he played a single game. His lateral movement test at the combine told me he was not athletic enough to play in the NBA. Now he is smart and shots good free throws, but his physical limitations prevent him from playing in the NBA over the long haul. He is the opposite of Evans, who has all the physical tools, but is still learning the game.

Now that you see Sanders is having a piss poor season, you are backing off, how convenient. If Sanders was putting up 15 and 10, you would be posting the same drivel you did all summer. If you want anyone to have a rational conversation with you, I would create a new user id.
 
oldtimer said:
Krazeeyekilla

I did not mean to imply that Hayward is a power forward. What I meant to say is that at the time of the draft I liked Larry Sanders and Paul George more than Hayward. Larry Sanders being a power forward and Paul George being a 3. If the need on the team was power forward I would have drafted Larry Sanders. If the need on the team was outside shooting I would have drafted Paul George. I would not have drafted Hayward. I was hoping the team would resign Mathews and keep Korver. The Jazz ended up getting Jefferson and Favors to add to Memo and Millsap. Obviously being over stocked with bigs and needing outside shooting I would have drafted George if I had been the GM and was making the decision. Some people want to perpetually remind me that I liked Sanders, they conveniently forget that I also liked George. I have never run from my opinion. I still like George and Sanders. However, Hayward is growing on me and playing defense (which I never believed he would be able to on the NBA level).
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I'll take Jefferson, Favors, and Millsap any day over Memo and Millsap, and if you need shooting what's wrong with Hayward isn't he a better shooter than George?
 
Thee Jazz Fan

You do speak da truth. Developing a winning culture is important, something made easier with really good players. How many new faces on the Jazz? AJ, Watson, Bell, Harris, Evans, Hayward, Favors, Elson. The Jazz turned over almost the entire roster. Basketball, played right, is a team game that requires cohesion. The Jazz wont have that this year. If I told you to close your eyes and imagine a team with 8 new players on it and ask you if you thought they would make the playoffs, you'd tell me no. If we could win and still get two high lottery picks I would say go for it. I want them to compete hard every night and try to get better, but if they lose and we get a higher draft pick because of it, I'm okay with that to.
 
oldtimer said:
Thee Jazz Fan

You do speak da truth. Developing a winning culture is important, something made easier with really good players. How many new faces on the Jazz? AJ, Watson, Bell, Harris, Evans, Hayward, Favors, Elson. The Jazz turned over almost the entire roster. Basketball, played right, is a team game that requires cohesion. The Jazz wont have that this year. If I told you to close your eyes and imagine a team with 8 new players on it and ask you if you thought they would make the playoffs, you'd tell me no. If we could win and still get two high lottery picks I would say go for it. I want them to compete hard every night and try to get better, but if they lose and we get a higher draft pick because of it, I'm okay with that to.
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If you could guarantee that every draft pick was good, and ready to play in the NBA from day one then that might be worth it. Do you really want to go through what Clips fans went through the last 20 or so years, and are still losing.
 
Jazz4ever

I'm to old to be arrogant. Yes I made my opinion known about Hayward, because I hate those people who believe one thing and then say after the fact that they knew Hayward was going to be great. On a message board, everyone is an amateur GM. I play one every year during the draft. My opinion at the time of the draft was the Jazz should draft Larry Sander or Paul George or even Patterson before Hayward. I have never tried to hide from it. If we didn't have so many very good young power forwards I would have taken Sanders. knowing how few shooting guards and small forwards we had I would have been forced to select Paul George over Larry Sanders. As of right now I would have taken Paul George over Hayward. But that does not mean I cannot acknowledge that Hayward is playing better and that defense has surprised me. If so I promise to never say another good word about the kid.

Now what I'm getting hounded because I'm not running from my claim. If I renounced Larry Sanders and Paul George and said Hayward is better than them, I believe everyone would let it go. I'd also be a hypocrite. The future may prove me wrong, but at least a took a position.

As for abuse and arrogance. I have rightfully taken my fair share. Remember Hayward's best game as a Jazzman. In the first half he had zero points, several turnover and I posted some comment that Hayward was the worst player of all time. In the second half he went off for like 17 points. Talk about giving me the business. I took the well humored abuse but I never ran from my statements.

My question to you Jazz4ever is does this mean I can never start any other post about any other subject without having someone say your the kid that hated the Hayward pick and wanted Larry Sander? If so that fine, I'll go back to reading the board and not posting.
 
I hope the Jazz make the playoffs because the experience will be invaluable, because they don't need yet another young guy to develop, and because they probably couldn't resist the temptation to turn that pick into The Jimmer. To me, missing the playoffs is an Honor Code Violation.
 
KrazeeEyezKilla said:
Trust me, GVC is not a tough guy. I mean, I've never met him but he seems like sort of a bitch.
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A bit harsh. I'm no tough guy though, that's for sure. Just having a little fun. I hardly think posting "Larry Sanders!" or "Larry Sanders blows" constitutes "hijacking" a thread.

meh, whatever. Better an internet tough guy than an internet ******.
 
Thee Jazz fan that is a really good point. There are no guarantees that two lottery picks will produce a winner. No I don't want to be a clipper, but I sure would have liked the chance to get Blake.
 
oldtimer said:
Jazz4ever

I'm to old to be arrogant. Yes I made my opinion known about Hayward, because I hate those people who believe one thing and then say after the fact that they knew Hayward was going to be great. On a message board, everyone is an amateur GM. I play one every year during the draft. My opinion at the time of the draft was the Jazz should draft Larry Sander or Paul George or even Patterson before Hayward. I have never tried to hide from it. If we didn't have so many very good young power forwards I would have taken Sanders. knowing how few shooting guards and small forwards we had I would have been forced to Paul George over Larry Sanders. As of right now I would have taken Paul George over Hayward. But that does not mean I cannot acknowledge that Hayward is playing better and that defense has surprised me. If so I promise to never say another good word about the kid.

Now what I'm getting hounded because I'm not running from my claim. If I renounced Larry Sanders and Paul George and said Hayward is better than them, I believe everyone would let it go. I'd also be a hypocrite. The future may prove me wrong, but at least a took a position.

As for abuse and arrogance. I have rightfully taken my fair share. Remember Hayward's best game as a Jazzman. In the first half he had zero points, several turnover and I posted some comment that Hayward was the worst player of all time. In the second half he went off for like 17 points. Talk about giving me the business. I took the well humored abuse but I never ran from my statements.

My question to you Jazz4ever is does this mean I can never start any other post about any other subject without having someone say your the kid that hated the Hayward pick and wanted Larry Sander? If so that fine, I'll go back to reading the board and not posting.
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I get the amateur gm part, we all are this. But your entire identity was focused on bashing Hayward because of some agility lane drills. If you ever played ball, you would know these drills cannot represent a real, unpredictable NBA situation. These milliseconds can be made up for in reaction time, additional conditioning, and good ole basketball IQ (does my opponent always go left or right?). Hopefully the fact Hayward is halfway succeeding on his defense, while disapointing in his one supposed given (shooting), will let you take future draft measurements with a grain of salt.
 
oldtimer said:
GVC you aren't speaking truth.

1. Larry Sander and Paul George are good young players.

2. Hayward is proving many people wrong.

3. GVC posting Larry Sanders in every thread I post regardless of its contents seems immature and moronic, but hey your a message board tough guy.
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larrysandersshow_l.jpg
 
Speak the truth....or make your peace some other way!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ueA9FNb0U
 
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