What's new

Stephen Jackson calls out Utah fans now.

There may be something in what you say here, for some missionaries that go out. I have a hard time generalizing to saying "the majority" on any blanket statements like this. For sure there is a difficulty in truly being in or immersed in a culture when you are protected by a bubble of rules and the fact that you are are teaching the gospel 24/7. It's more like being a boat while the river is the culture, vs swimming in it. Missionaries are taught to love the people, not necessarily to love the culture. I know that in many cases loving the culture will come naturally if you actually do love the people. To truly care about someone you need to understand them, and to understand them it stands to reason that you should understand their culture, then understand where they stand in regards to it, and even those two things are only a small part of the equation.

I don't think that a culture needs to convert to "Mormonism". You can be a member of the LDS Church and still be a part of your own culture, even if that part is changed a bit. Are you specifically talking about Utah LDS culture, or LDS church culture in general? I believe it is quite different pretty much everywhere. The LDS culture in Cali is different than that in Utah, than that on the east coast, more different even still in other countries. My experiences seem to be different than yours, so I'm thinking the truth of it in general is varied with data points all over the place as opposed to the data point of what you feel is the case for all missionaries.

Its still an individual thing that is hard to generalize to a whole group like this

Also about culture, it is constantly in flux, and different based on location. Culture moves, migrates, and changes constantly. I also don't think gaining a love for a culture has a huge impact on being or not being racist. I also think pretty much everybody tends to think their own beliefs, culture, country, team, neighborhood, family, friends, socks are better than others out there, but that does not mean they hate the other ones out there. That is something learned. The LDS Church teaches all members to love other people, and the idea that members of the LDS church feel they are right in that it is the one church with the authority of God and has more Truth than other churches does not mean people of other faiths or no faith are less than it's members as individuals. I'm a Jazz fan, I like the team, the players, the coaches, the owners, the organization, the city... much better than other teams, players, organizations, cities. Does that mean I think the Jazz are better than the Rockets or the Warriors this year? No. Does it mean I hate the other teams because I like my team better? No. In the same vein, why would me liking my Church and believing it is true and the best for me automatically mean I am better than everyone else and that I am now a "passive racist" or whatever it was termed? I know it's not a perfect comparison, but it catches the main points.

I see what some of you think about the LDS Church, and members of the church, and pushing the idea that there is some sort of passive racism or whatever you want to call it going on.

I disagree. Are there individuals that are church members that are racist, probably. Is that something taught by the Church, not to my understanding. Are there things taught that could be taken that way, I can see that because I have seen numbers of things taken a different way than my view of what is intended. Are there portions of the Bible and Book of Mormon that talk about dark skin, and curses, and markings to distinguish from the people of God, yes. Does that mean that people with lighter or darker skin are better or worse than someone else, no it does not. Was there a time in church history when people with dark skin were not allowed to hold the Priesthood, yes there was. Do I fully understand why this was the case, I do not. Do I think the church leaders were perfect and made every right decision in their lives, no way.

This next part, I know some of you will scoff and mock, but it is true for me so I will say it.

While I don't have answers to all of these things and some of the difficult things that have happened in the history of the church. I do know for myself that God is real, that Jesus is truly the Christ taught in the Bible and Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith did see God and Christ and did do necessary things to bring Christs church back with the organization and proper authority. There are other things I know that are a foundation for me which allow me to take the time I need to work out the rest, and some of these more difficult/challenging questions. With what I do know from God, I feel comfortable with taking time figuring out the rest following the pattern I learned in gaining what I have already from God.

I also know that all people no matter the color, culture, age, gender are equally as important and loved by God. I don't see color other than at times as an easy way to narrow down the possibilities in Utah when trying to describe a person to another person when hair color, eye color, clothing doesn't help.

I know some people would like to label me a racist because I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and believe it's teachings, but I refute that. I also understand some of you will claim I am in this bucket that thinks I am not, but "really am", and I think that is weak.

I like DM, Favors, pretty much the whole team and coaching staff. I don't like Hayward, Lyles, Burke, Kanter. My dislike comes from individual experiences toward our team & State from them or their crews. ijazz was annoying.

I personally think most of the LDS Jazz fans are like me in this. There is no blatant, or hidden racism. I think the theories and racism litmus tests, and dogwhistle conversations are flawed, blurry, and steered toward seeing something.

Sorry/notsorry for the book. Please excuse the spelling, grammar, and readability errors, I'm out of time and my editor is not available.

Well put.

To add, I've personally never heard of a returned missionary who didnt fall in love with the culture. They all want to take their parents there and show the place off as tour guide.

Missionaries live as the locals live from my understanding. Those in Southern Peru chop their own firewood, and chop wood for others, eyc.
 
You sound like you had it pretty rough, but techno-innovations do not make one culture "superior" to another.

We taught a Russian in California, and he went out of his way to let us know that he agreed with the Priesthood ban on blacks (even though this was in 1993). But when we asked him about his country, he described rich traditions associated with food, dancing, and folklore. He lamented the "nothing" culture here in the US that is focused on consumerism.

Had I known about their brooms, perhaps I would have brought it up.

Russian culture is tough because a lot of it was destroyed by Communism. I mean you have a group of citizens that always held to the traditions and others where the culture was forcibly driven out of them to conform to Marx. Russian food was "meh" but the dancing and folklore were top notch. Most Russians were pretty racist in my experience, although because of its vastness there are a lot of ethnic backgrounds amongst the populace.

Obviously I didn't live in all of Russia and I didn't live rural, so I missed a lot.

I actually served my mission in the Ozark mountains which is a culture of a whole different sort.
 
Is the answer "because Nick Collison sucks?" Because that's what my money is on.
You'd lose your money. Not the right answer.

I suggest you Google pictures of Collison and Westbrick. You might see a difference and therein lies the answer to why those Jazz fans went after Westbrick and not Collison.
 
You'd lose your money. Not the right answer.

I suggest you Google pictures of Collison and Westbrick. You might see a difference and therein lies the answer to why those Jazz fans went after Westbrick and not Collison.
Screen_Shot_2017_10_15_at_12.55.25_AM.png


I just did, and still no clue. Can you help me out?
 
I agree that most returned missionaries, in general, have been exposed to a single different culture for a two year span. The problem is that the majority of those missionaries are there to convert members of another culture to an American religion. That's fine but it doesn't lend itself well to breaking out of an ethnocentric mindset. I know from my experiences that very few of my fellow missionaries, in actuality, grew to fully respect and appreciate the culture they were immersed in. In fact, many of them were disrespectful of the culture and there was a strong sense of false superiority. Which is ironic and sadly hypocritical. This isn't an outlier. The attitude exists because the belief that other cultures need to convert to Mormonism to be saved exists and also because we're not actually immersed in the culture. We carry objectives and goals into their culture and the baggage prevents us, barely even adults, from learning the lessons we should be learning from exposure to different cultures. Instead of being an enlightened people, I think returned missionaries become more unconsciously entrenched in ethnocentric attitudes. They think they've learned to love and respect a separate culture and have convinced themselves of that but in reality have simply become convinced of their own culture's superiority.

This is all good for the Church because when a missionary actually does learn to appreciate and love a different culture the result is often a degree of inactivity.

I think the above is also tied directly to the implicit kind of unconscious racism of the area too. We're super convinced that we're not racist, like at all. How could we be? WE LIVED IN A DIFFERENT COUNTRY FOR TWO YEARS AND WE TOTALLY LOVED THE PEOPLE THERE. PLEASE GET BAPTIZED!

100% was my experience. I also heard a ton of missionaries from utah/idaho/california/arizona use the n-word super casually with each other all the time. But that's probably just an isolated thing I'm sure.
 
You're welcome.

I have to hand it to you, you took your diagnosis that you are clueless with great dignity. You may not be the brightest bulb on planet Earth, but at least you've got the good sense to accept it. Good for you.
Again, thank you. I consider the source and respond accordingly. If you in bizarro world think I'm clueless, that must mean I'm Einstein level genius in the real world. From you it was the greatest of compliments and I am in full appreciation.

You also entertain with your tomtrollery, and there is a certain level of respect that must be given even if reluctantly.
 
..I'm Einstein level genius in the real world.

Well, you blew it. You should have crawled back to your closet and let your parents chain you back up. But instead you had to try to inflate your existence. "Einstein level"? Really?

I take back my "You're welcome." And I hope your parents never unchain you to let you have a few hours around the house again.
 
Well, you blew it. You should have crawled back to your closet and let your parents chain you back up. But instead you had to try to inflate your existence. "Einstein level"? Really?

I take back my "You're welcome." And I hope your parents never unchain you to let you have a few hours around the house again.
It was really a compliment to the depths of your awesomeness. No need to be offended. If you were a poor mans MeloTheJazzKiller I would have compared it to a regular old doctor or something. You're welcome.
 
When watching Stephen Jackson on TV for your cable company, you get angry. When you hear Stephen Jackson proclaim JaVale McGee does more than Gobert you must blow-off steam. When you blow off steam, an accident occurs. When an accident happens, people think you are Stephen Jackson. When people think you are Stephen Jackson, they don't want to know Stephen Jackson. When people agree with Stephen Jackson, they wake up in a road-side ditch. Don't wake up in a roadside ditch, get rid of Stephen Jackson.

https://clutchpoints.com/warriors-news-stephen-jackson-says-javale-mcgee-does-more-than-rudy-gobert/
 
Again, thank you. I consider the source and respond accordingly. If you in bizarro world think I'm clueless, that must mean I'm Einstein level genius in the real world. From you it was the greatest of compliments and I am in full appreciation.

You also entertain with your tomtrollery, and there is a certain level of respect that must be given even if reluctantly.
Agreed. I never want to be so silly and petty that I understand the fake outrage that this "PC run amok, I must be offended by something at all times to show I'm woke and caring" trend is pushing. Such a joke it's become, and many just keep riding the outrage train...easier than looking at yourself.....smh
 
Top