Awesome! You may have explained this in another thread, but how did you come to be a Utah Jazz fan?
Supreme Court Justice Kennedy to Retire
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Forcibly my ***. You chose to take a job under a union contract. By law Unions have to negotiate a contract for all the employees. They can't represent just their members in contract negotiations. They have to represent everyone so everyone should have to pony up for it.
If you don't like your union you can:
Stand for election/vote for different leadership within your union and bring about the changes you would like to see.
Get a non union job that will probably pay you less because there is no collective bargaining.
Or (now) freeload/undermine the union that works on your behalf.
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
You're not forced to work under a union contract. Most of the jobs in this country are non union!
Bull ****. Sometimes you need a job and you take what you can get... warts and all. Everybody cannot pick and chose what job they get based on political leanings.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
You do realize that you live in as right to work of a state as you possibly could. Your union has its hands tied behind its back by the asshats on Capitol hill/the short time period you've been union. Don't undermine your union(even in Utah) invest your time to strengthen it. The more of you that do the stronger your negotiating position will become.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
**** are you talking about? it's easier to get a non union job than a union job. For one thing there's way more of them. for another they tend to be less sought-after because there's not someone representing your interests. If you can get a union job then there are plenty of people who would love to hire you without union protections.
As I've mentioned, I belong to my union. I pay dues. I participate.
I know I wouldn't get paid less because I know what several other employers pay for similar positions. Some union some not.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Awesome! In that case, give up:
- Your weekends
- The 40-hr work week
- Break time
- Health insurance
- Medical leave
- Paid holidays
- Pay raises
- Tenure
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
There's no force. It's like shopping at costco. Noone forces you to shop there. If you don't like the membership fee shop somewhere else.
I've understood your point this whole time.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
How is this even debatable? Have you been living in a cave these past few months? Where have all the teacher strikes been happening? In blue states where unions tend to be stronger or in red states where unions are weak? Where are public workers compensated better, blue states where unions are stronger or in red right to work states?
When I worked for Utah’s k-12 system I was our school’s association (union) Representative. Because of us we negotiated with the district to bring back pay raises (steps and lane changes). For teachers who had been around for longer than 10 years that meant that they finally got a pay raise for their experience, certifications, and added education. They wouldn’t have otherwise gotten a raise without the hours we spent negotiating with the district.
One of the biggest frustrations we had was the amount of teachers who didn’t contribute one penny to the association yet they happily accepted the added compensation that we fought for.
Furthermore, American workers seem to whine nonstop about their poor compensation. The wealth inequality cap is skyrocketing. Yet, there’s a real cognitive disconnect between their desires for better compensation and their refusal to join a union and collectively bargain. There’s a seemingly unwarranted trust that employers will act altruistically and compensation them their sufficiently to their worth. while unions are believed to charge obscene fees and not work for them.
I know first hand it’s not true. The district wouldn’t have gladly restored lanes and steps. The amount we were paid in relation to the hours we worked in negotiating with the district was literally pennies. Most associations in utah charge between $30-$70 dollars per month. While a simple lane change depending on the experience would provide the teacher with a raise between $150-250 per month.
But sure, yeah, unions suck.
When I worked for Utah’s k-12 system I was our school’s association (union) Representative. Because of us we negotiated with the district to bring back pay raises (steps and lane changes). For teachers who had been around for longer than 10 years that meant that they finally got a pay raise for their experience, certifications, and added education. They wouldn’t have otherwise gotten a raise without the hours we spent negotiating with the district.
One of the biggest frustrations we had was the amount of teachers who didn’t contribute one penny to the association yet they happily accepted the added compensation that we fought for.
Furthermore, American workers seem to whine nonstop about their poor compensation. The wealth inequality cap is skyrocketing. Yet, there’s a real cognitive disconnect between their desires for better compensation and their refusal to join a union and collectively bargain. There’s a seemingly unwarranted trust that employers will act altruistically and compensation them their sufficiently to their worth. while unions are believed to charge obscene fees and not work for them.
I know first hand it’s not true. The district wouldn’t have gladly restored lanes and steps. The amount we were paid in relation to the hours we worked in negotiating with the district was literally pennies. Most associations in utah charge between $30-$70 dollars per month. While a simple lane change depending on the experience would provide the teacher with a raise between $150-250 per month.
But sure, yeah, unions suck.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Sounds like your job sucks. Sorry man, but I’m just being honest. Not all unions are that great either. Provo’s association is known throughout the state to be weak. I think it’s a combination of being sandwiched between two major universities which provide the schools with a cheap labor source and an association that just doesn’t play hard ball.
Hopefully things change for the better for you. You could join the union and run as a rep. Once you’re in a position you could probably change the course of your association and force your employer to pay you your just dues.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
No. Stop listening to fake news.
Union reps are typically present in the termination process. I’ve even advised a few principals that their best option would be to terminate the employee.
The main role we played was in protecting the worker’s rights. This means that employers had to give employees a due process. They had to follow protocol and ensure that the termination was just and not merely based on personal grudges, gossip, etc.
It shouldn’t be a secret that the American worker has seen stagnant wages since the collapse of organized labor. Like it’s obvious why workers today are typically working harder, receiving less pay, and are less secure in their jobs. Without organized labor of course the employer will exploit workers for all they can.
Jazzta
Guest
Unions in the US are light in comparison to unions in France, Spain, Germany. I’m not sure how it is here but some unions in Spain have worked against the workers (in the long term), due to going overboard with the strikes and protests, I know from experience. The company I worked for (Hewlett Packard) decided to move somewhere “less problematic” and outsource the jobs to India.
With that said I do believe that unions play a good part in keeping some managers in check and providing a healthy balance between potential greediness from mgmt and the workers benefits.
With that said I do believe that unions play a good part in keeping some managers in check and providing a healthy balance between potential greediness from mgmt and the workers benefits.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
One thing that we haven’t even touched on, unions as a lobbying force in politics. If unions have less money now (which is obviously going to happen) how are they supposed to offset the corporate dollars that are flooding our political system?
Lmfao, damn you’re a sad person. I pay and will continue to do so. Kick rocks edited.
You also have an astounding lack of reading comprehension.
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♪alt13
Well-Known Member
What we haven't touched is that not only can you thank unions for every single workplace protection that Americans have you can also thank them for your civil rights.
Unions fought to
End child labor
The 40 hour work week
Weekends
Women's suffrage
Social Security
Medicare
The Civil rights act
Against workplace discrimination
Etc etc etc
Seriously all of you are benefiting from the tireless work of labor unions wether you realize or not. Most of you need to put the corporate news media aside and read a history book. Crazy ignorant! Ignorant to the point of shooting yourselves in the foot. I wouldn't care but the ricochet threatens us all.
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