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Swing For The Fences

C

Coach Ellis

Well-Known Member
Over the past 5 years, Deron Williams, James Harden, Dwight Howard and Kevin Love have all been traded for blockbuster packages. Multiple picks and players. Bynum, Iguadola, Bogut, Ellis and other high quality players have been traded as well.

The Jazz currently have four guys that I think they see as Core players moving forward. Rudy Gobert, Derrick Favors, Gordon Hayward and Dante Exum. Alec Burks is probably non-tradeable right now because of his injury and contract.

They also happen to have the kind of assets that could have been in the conversation for all of the aforementioned All Stars that were traded. My hope is that instead of trading Kanter for peanuts in one deal and/or Burke in another, that the Jazz would look to pool their best assets over the next 5 years and go after a guy with All Star potential to add to the current Core group.

Any combination of Kanter's Bird rights, Burke, Hood, Jingles, Booker, rights to Tomic/Neto , multiple premium draft picks (unprotected if needed) and the potential to provide cap relief by taking a bad contract back should be enough to get a couple of teams to at least consider parting with a young guy who hasn't "proven it" yet.

IF the Jazz were to pursue this kind of trade, who would you want them to go after? And why?

For me, it's Giannis Antetokounmpo. Yeah, he's long and athletic, but his shot has really struggled. I think Quin is more patient and better at developing players than Kidd is. I don't know if he'll ever be the offensive force that some think he's capable of, but I love how he plays and I love the defensive potential for a Gobert, Favors, Greek Freak, Hayward and Exum starting lineup. I'd pay a premium price to pull that deal off and then use FA to buy a bench to support the core.

Rather than selling low, the Jazz should aim high and try to pull off a big move. They'll have to overpay to do so, but they have the assets and I think the cap jump will make it harder to do next year. I don't know if it's even feasible, but it seems preferable to me instead of selling low now and failing to utilize assets later on.
 
Not saying anybody specific is available, but who would you want to go after? And how much do you think they're worth?
 
Good luck. Giannis is the face of the Bucks. They won't deal "GF" or Parker until they truly see if those two can play together.
 
How would we get Giannis? THey really like him and have his RFA rights for another 6 years at maximum. No way we can get him. These kind of trades happen for disgruntled players that they believe they can't keep long-term. Harden was a rare case that a team was ultra cheap and didn't want to keep their young stud with bird rights.

Everything else is just trading for disgruntled super-stars like Melo, Love, and D-Will. Those trades worked out great for the teams that got them......
 
Cy said:
How would we get Giannis? THey really like him and have his RFA rights for another 6 years at maximum. No way we can get him. These kind of trades happen for disgruntled players that they believe they can't keep long-term. Harden was a rare case that a team was ultra cheap and didn't want to keep their young stud with bird rights.

Everything else is just trading for disgruntled super-stars like Melo, Love, and D-Will. Those trades worked out great for the teams that got them......
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Granted, that's usually the case. I didn't say it was probably or even likely. I just said that it's preferable to the deals that most people want to see the Jazz execute for Kanter/Burke. It's worth inquiring about. We assume that a team has big plans for their young guys, but that may not always be the case. And when you put together a package that includes 2 former lottery players (including one that you've acknowledged an interest in) and up to 4 1st round picks, plus cap relief. . . for a player who may or may not break out. . . well, they may or may not hang up on you.

That's a better package than what the Lakers paid for Dwight Howard or what the Rockets paid for James Harden. If a team isn't in love with their guy, maybe there's an opportunity. It's a lot of assets to give for essentially one player, but the Jazz have positioned themselves to take a shot. If they don't feel like now is the time, then they could always match on Kanter (or flip him for another asset) and try again down the road.
 
Dragic is the only guy who fit the description of a top player who is disgruntled that would be a swing for the fence. You want to pay 20 million a year for 5 years (making 20 million when he is 34 on his final year) to a guy who has really only had a few great years? That would be swinging for the fence.
 
Cy said:
Dragic is the only guy who fit the description of a top player who is disgruntled that would be a swing for the fence. You want to pay 20 million a year for 5 years (making 20 million when he is 34 on his final year) to a guy who has really only had a few great years? That would be swinging for the fence.
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No. I wouldn't want to pay those kind of assets or cash for Dragic. Ideally, I would have offered this type of package to the T-wolves before they finished executing the KLove trade to try to snag Wiggins before they fell in love with him. Or make a move for a RFA like Butler or Leonard before they get maxed. Unfortunately, the cap going up dramatically is going to stagnate player movement. All teams will have the cap space to keep their guys if they so choose. I have a feeling that Bird rights will be valuable assets here in the near future when the cap jumps.
 
I wouldn't be opposed to such a move, but I am not sure if such is available. The likes of Giannis are untouchable. They would want a superstar in return, not a combination of 5-6 good and garbage pieces. Do you have other options in mind? I can't really think of anybody off the top of my head... Also with the cap going up next year, teams will for certain be more willing than usual to max players, because in the long run those contracts will be contracts on discount.
 
Ellis269 said:
Over the past 5 years, Deron Williams, James Harden, Dwight Howard and Kevin Love have all been traded for blockbuster packages. Multiple picks and players. Bynum, Iguadola, Bogut, Ellis and other high quality players have been traded as well.
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Might as well ad Melo and Drink's Pee to that list. Let's click off the teams who benefited from those trades, excluding Bogut-Ellis since it was one way:

1. Jazz.
2. Orlando.
3. nobody else.
4. The first two aren't exactly in the best situations.
5. You're not giving up anything close to Bynum, Iguadola, Bogut, Ellis, Deron Williams, James Harden, Dwight Howard and Kevin Love potential.


Swing for the fences requires giving up something. Gobert and Exum aren't swing for the fences at this point. Patience if you want this kind of deal.
 
Ellis269 said:
No. I wouldn't want to pay those kind of assets or cash for Dragic. Ideally, I would have offered this type of package to the T-wolves before they finished executing the KLove trade to try to snag Wiggins before they fell in love with him. Or make a move for a RFA like Butler or Leonard before they get maxed. Unfortunately, the cap going up dramatically is going to stagnate player movement. All teams will have the cap space to keep their guys if they so choose. I have a feeling that Bird rights will be valuable assets here in the near future when the cap jumps.
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BEFORE they fell in love with Wiggins? They were in love with him from the start. It's what held up the deal for so long.
There is ZERO chance of getting guys like Wiggins or GA unless you DO give up a star. Offer Milwaukee Hayward for Giannis and they'd probably make a deal. Spare parts, even mid-level spare parts are not going to get a great player, especially one on a rookie deal - unless that player is disgruntled.

Also, with the cap/tax level going up, there just isn't a chance to make a Harden-type deal. Most teams don't have tax problems (the exception being Brooklyn) and will have no problem hanging on to their players because of the huge increase coming up. GS COULD have been a candidate with Draymond Green, but they've publicly stated they're willing to pay the tax for a year. After that, no problem due to the increase and having Lee come off the books. Shorter contracts also play into that. Teams that make mistakes aren't saddled with bad contracts for 6-7 years.
 
franklin said:
Might as well ad Melo and Drink's Pee to that list. Let's click off the teams who benefited from those trades, excluding Bogut-Ellis since it was one way:

1. Jazz.
2. Orlando.
3. nobody else.
4. The first two aren't exactly in the best situations.
5. You're not giving up anything close to Bynum, Iguadola, Bogut, Ellis, Deron Williams, James Harden, Dwight Howard and Kevin Love potential.


Swing for the fences requires giving up something. Gobert and Exum aren't swing for the fences at this point. Patience if you want this kind of deal.
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Great point. Trading a ton of assets for a "star" often doesn't give the return one would like. Brooklyn and New York sure did well with the Carmelo and Deron trades, right?

IMO, Gobert, Favors and Hayward are untouchable right now. That is/will be a fantastic frontcourt. And they all speak highly of each other and get along great. Way too early to make a judgment on Exum. I agree we need to do something at SG. Perhaps Alec is the answer, perhaps not. But the Jazz can address that in the draft. Of all the non-playoff teams, I like the Jazz' situation the best. Yes, I'm a homer. But you look at the roster and you see a team ready to break out with just a few tweaks.

As franklin said...patience. Let's wait until at least next year before expecting a championship. :D
 
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