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The Anti-Sloan/Pro-Deron Theory

tatermoog

tatermoog

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I sent a few thoughts to Pearl via PM earlier today, and I figured I'd throw them out here so you can have at'em. In brief, it occurred to me that there is a possible framework of the events on Wednesday that actually makes more sense on some levels and--much as I hate to do this--frees Deron of much of the guilt. As follows:

End of first half, Deron tries to run play Sloan asks, sees something in defense, tries different approach or play.

Sloan confronts him at halftime.

Deron tries to defend himself.

Sloan, worn down by quite a bit of losing and a less-than-good relationship with his PG, loses his **** at Deron, who is actually not the instigator.

Either realizes he's losing it on his own, or is told by staff that he's losing it, or is firmly told to knock it off by KOC and associates. Decides to retire, and perhaps even is prompted to retire.

Would explain why we're not hearing any more details of what really happened (don't want to stab the guy in the back as he's leaving) and makes it where most of the people interviewed are actually telling the truth, i.e. it wasn't really Deron's fault.
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Another point in favor of that argument was his farewell press conference. I know he was upset, but he seemed far more upset than someone who had just decided that the game had passed him by. But then again, I'm of the opinion that he stayed with the team for so long because he needed basketball more than it needed him, so it could just be normal. Other point in favor is that the initial reports out of Wednesday night made it sound as if there were a conflict between KOC and Sloan--including a counter-report saying that it was just "one of the things that happens in the course of a season--and it's still a possibility that the closed-door meeting was more intense than we think. Also gives credence to KOC's very harsh denunciations of the ultimatum theory, since his main goal is protecting his prize draft choice. And finally, the general sense in the locker room after Sloan's retirement--from reports on Twitter, that most accurate of sources--has been relief/excitement. Matches a story of an increasingly unbalanced dictator more than their douche-captain pushing the guy out.
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This is a bit ethereal and the like, and I personally don't believe it (primarily because I enjoy the model where my Deron-is-a-giant-douche belief system is confirmed), but it seems to work on some levels.
 
I asked a basic question before I came up with this.

What can I picture more easily? Deron forcing a confrontation with Sloan that nearly turns physical, or Sloan hearing or perceiving a slight and then challenging a player to a fight?
 
And at the risk of turning this thread into full-blown conspiracy theory, wherein I post eighteen times with no response and by the end am convinced that One Brow is really Sarah Michelle Gellar, one more thing this idea would explain: wouldn't it make sense for the Jazz FO to refuse Jerry's demands towards suspending a player if he were the one who started it in the first place?
 
THE ANSWER'S IN THIS CHART EVERYTHING IS CLEAR

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I think you have made a valiant point. DW just happened to be the last guy to mix it up with Sloan. Sloan has a history of doing this with many players so it isn't like DW was the only guy to have issues with Sloan. I just think Sloan realized that he didn't want to do this anymore. Unless you are over 50 years of age you can't really understand what it is like to do the same thing for 30 years. With all jobs there are things that just make it easier to walk away.

I think DW has been throw under the bus by many fans not only because of this situation but because he is not John Stockton. DW definitely shares some of the blame in the situation because he has let his frustration get to him. However, Sloan's own behavior over the years hasn't actually been mature all the time. Like most situation, there is blame to go around but in the end I think Sloan's tank was empty and it was just time for him to leave. The emotion from Sloan wasn't unusual considering how people feel about him and how he feels about the Jazz. I don't think it had much to do with the way it went down. I just think Sloan knew his time was up and that is sad for anyone. I wish Jerry well. I hope he has many more years to live and that eventually he will visit the ESA and watch the Jazz. Someday he will have his Jersey retired.
 
I doubt we'll ever know how the fight went down. We do know that Sloan retired by himself, with no buddy forcing him out. I think it's safe to say that we do know Deron was not the biggest fan of Sloan, and vice versa. They didn't have much chemistry. This does not make Deron a diva, nor Sloan a bitchy old man. Not one coach is right for every team. I firmly believe at one point in his career Sloan was the absolute best, he was just as important to the team has a Hall of Fame Power Forward and point guard. But he wasn't the best coach for this new team, this new generation. He stepped down like a man.
 
One of the theories I've heard tossed around was that Sloan wanted to penalize Deron for not running plays he called during the Chicago game. To which, the management said no, so Sloan finally decided to hell with it all.
 
I agree more with the first scenario. Sloan has always said when he didn't have the energy or desire to do this anymore he would move on. It is entirely plausible that he had a confrontation with Deron that really was nothing worse than anything that has happened in the past, between him and Deron or other players or refs or whatever, but also in the past would have been less volatile, that in the past he would have been more in control than this time. And that was the point he realized he wasn't enjoying the game any more. And Sloan is true to his word. He was not enjoying the game anymore, he didn't want to do this anymore, he found he didn't gave the energy for those kinds of conflicts and stresses anymore, so he moved on.
 
Why does it have to be anyone's fault? Jerry was 68 years old. If you look at his old videos, he had tons of energy on the bench. Watching him the past couple of seasons he seemed to slow down a bit and admitted he was tired. The Jazz players weren't responding like they used to and the play was showing that. Given both circumstances, he knew it was time.
 
cjs55 said:
One of the theories I've heard tossed around was that Sloan wanted to penalize Deron for not running plays he called during the Chicago game. To which, the management said no, so Sloan finally decided to hell with it all.
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Penalize as in fine him? Can't be true. Sloan never wanted to take player's money.

The truth is probably a lot more tepid than people would like to guess. Yes, he had blow-ups with D-Will and players that don't want to give 100% all of the time. But nothing more severe than bull **** in the past with Malone or Ostertag or Chris Morris or Kirk Snyder.

Malone keeps talking about "the Jerry Sloan I know" . The Jerry Sloan he knows is 59 years old from when he left Utah. A lot has happened in the last 9 years. The guys wife died, the owner of the team died, his back-court partner from Chicago died. Could it just be that in the middle of a trying season Sloan just decided he's too old for this **** and he doesn't want to wake up dead on a charter flight from Washington DC to New York?

We're spoon fed stories where there is always a good guy or bad guy; but in this story you probably just have an old guy that's burned out.
 
candrew said:
We're spoon fed stories where there is always a good guy or bad guy; but in this story you probably just have an old guy that's burned out.
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You're one of my favorite posters, but you're also espousing the theory I find least credible. Call me conflicted.

I'm not saying your points might not be correct, but really, what indication has Jerry Sloan ever given that he's the type of guy to quit his gig halfway through a season? Especially considering that he'd given no indication beforehand that he had any thoughts other than finishing his contract? Things like this rarely happen without a significant proximate cause, and I still don't think a minor and typical fight between Deron and Jerry is reason enough.
 
tatermoog said:
You're one of my favorite posters, but you're also espousing the theory I find least credible. Call me conflicted.

I'm not saying your points might not be correct, but really, what indication has Jerry Sloan ever given that he's the type of guy to quit his gig halfway through a season? Especially considering that he'd given no indication beforehand that he had any thoughts other than finishing his contract? Things like this rarely happen without a significant proximate cause, and I still don't think a minor and typical fight between Deron and Jerry is reason enough.
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I'll leave someone else to dig up the evidence, but I've heard him say innumerable times that the reason he signs these extensions is he doesn't know when he'll be tired of it and just up and want out. That he might leave just like Layden did, even. Details notwithstanding, that's exactly what happened.
 
And I'll echo what many others including myself had said before, this is multi-faceted and I don't know what good is accomplished pointing fingers when **** just happens, sometimes.
 
This thread is entirely too level-headed and in contrast to the other threads where everyone thinks Deron is a douche and threw a major temper tantrum and ran Sloan out of town. What the hell happened Jazzfanz?
 
catratcho said:
This thread is entirely too level-headed and in contrast to the other threads where everyone thinks Deron is a douche and threw a major temper tantrum and ran Sloan out of town. What the hell happened Jazzfanz?
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Don't be confused, I still believe that's what happened. This thread has no bearing on Deron being a Level Five Douche.
 
tatermoog said:
I'm not saying your points might not be correct, but really, what indication has Jerry Sloan ever given that he's the type of guy to quit his gig halfway through a season?
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He's always given that indication. He's always said he'd go out like Layden, just hit a moment when he doesn't want to do it anymore and be done right there.

Really, have you never had a point in your life when you're just finished with something? A job, relationship, whatever. To continue in that type of situation is the worst way to go about it. If he felt like it wasn't what he wanted to be doing anymore, it would be a disservice to play out the rest of the season trying to force the energy or enthusiasm that's necessary for the job.
 
1) No way. If Deron adjusted simply responding to the defense, that does not cause an argument. How dumb and inexperienced do you think Sloan is? Don't answer the dumb part.
2) One fight is not the issue and it is naive for anyone to suppose it is. Deron has changed his tune this year both on Jerry and on the FO. He has been challenging them and getting more outspoken. What may be true is that this is the first time Jerry has had a star player continually challenging him and not backing off, particularly as the sole leader.
 
bluenote said:
Why does it have to be anyone's fault? Jerry was 68 years old. If you look at his old videos, he had tons of energy on the bench. Watching him the past couple of seasons he seemed to slow down a bit and admitted he was tired. The Jazz players weren't responding like they used to and the play was showing that. Given both circumstances, he knew it was time.
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Winner here...

But that is too boring for a forum.
 
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