The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[Safetydan]

It’s not wealth inequality

No

 

[fishonjazz]

Great example!

Thought experiment open to everyone:
What do you think would happen if they put Trump in jail for violating a gag order?

You are probably right that you’d be prosecuted for violating a gag order. Trump has too in the form of being assessed a $10k fine, which if we’re being honest is nothing. It is unfair that you’d be prosecuted but Trump is not, but why is it so that Trump isn’t being prosecuted while you would be?

It is in Judge Engoron’s power to do that, and he hates Trump with a burning passion, so why isn’t he doing it? It is because this is a political prosecution and Engoron is getting dozens of credible death threats every day even without jailing Trump.

This is not justice being blind. This is justice being hyper-aware of political ramifications, and the political ramifications of Trump being put in jail for exercising his freedom of speech are so dire the even a true Trump-hater like Engoron won’t go there. Everything about this trial, from the charges, to the venue, to the choice of judge, to the enforcement or lack-of-enforcement of gag orders is political, and 62% of all Americans see it that way. This is a political prosecution. This is governmental corruption.

Duh, it's because the justice system favors conservatives.
If Biden were in the same situation he would be in jail

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

 

[One Brow]

To be clear, the AP wrote a thing. You said the thing citing the AP claim. I said I agree with the thing. Now you want me to debunk the thing we both agree happened where Pence searched his house before the FBI got there with their own search team?

We agree it was a search, but I noticed you offered a weaker claim this time. I'm asking you to provide evidence that was a "pre-search", which would mean it was a private search before some inevitable classified document search.

 

[One Brow]

It is in Judge Engoron’s power to do that, and he hates Trump with a burning passion, ...

Can you provide evidence he hates Trump, specifically, as opposed the legal strategy being employed by Trump and his lawyers?

 

[The Thriller]

lol

Yeah, and the whole looking for evidence related to J6 is the reason he got searched. Biden voluntarily worked with his investigation out of caution, not for participating in an attempted coup.

Aaaand, Trump lied to his lawyers, paid employees to move documents to hide from his lawyers and feds, and showed classified information to others ON TAPE.

Your selective nuance is hilarious. The minute you run into your confirmation bias you lie, change your story, and continue to shill for Trump.

It’s like child running into a screen door, over and over again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great post

 

[Al-O-Meter]

We agree it was a search, but I noticed you offered a weaker claim this time. I'm asking you to provide evidence that was a "pre-search", which would mean it was a private search before some inevitable classified document search.

"A lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence’s Indiana home last week" -CNN

"Former Vice President Mike Pence‘s lawyers discovered classified material at his private home"- Wall Street Journal

"The documents, discovered by a lawyer last week for Mr Pence at his Indiana home" -BBC

Lawyers for former VP Pence conducted a search of his Indiana home in advance of the FBI searching his home. It was a pre-search and they found documents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/pence-classified-documents-fbi/index.html

Classified Documents Found at Mike Pence’s Indiana Home

Former Vice President Mike Pence’s lawyers discovered classified material at his private home, according to a letter his representative sent to the National Archives.

www.wsj.com

Mike Pence: Classified documents found at former vice-president's home

The files were passed to the FBI following their discovery by the former US vice-president's lawyer.

www.bbc.com

 

[Sardines]

"A lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence’s Indiana home last week" -CNN

"Former Vice President Mike Pence‘s lawyers discovered classified material at his private home"- Wall Street Journal

"The documents, discovered by a lawyer last week for Mr Pence at his Indiana home" -BBC

Lawyers for former VP Pence conducted a search of his Indiana home in advance of the FBI searching his home. It was a pre-search and they found documents.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/pence-classified-documents-fbi/index.html

Classified Documents Found at Mike Pence’s Indiana Home

Former Vice President Mike Pence’s lawyers discovered classified material at his private home, according to a letter his representative sent to the National Archives.

www.wsj.com

Mike Pence: Classified documents found at former vice-president's home

The files were passed to the FBI following their discovery by the former US vice-president's lawyer.

www.bbc.com

Are you trying to be obtuse?

 

[One Brow]

Lawyers for former VP Pence conducted a search of his Indiana home in advance of the FBI searching his home. It was a pre-search and they found documents.

I'm asking for evidence that it was a pre-search, instead of a precautionary search or a private search, as Pence's lawyer said. Using the timeline is insufficient, you'll need to demonstrate that the FBI's search for classified documents was coming even if Pence conducted no private search, or it's not a search before a search, which is what "pre-search" would mean.

 

[One Brow]

Are you trying to be obtuse?

Likely, yes.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I'm asking for evidence that it was a pre-search, instead of a precautionary search or a private search, as Pence's lawyer said. Using the timeline is insufficient, you'll need to demonstrate that the FBI's search for classified documents was coming even if Pence conducted no private search, or it's not a search before a search, which is what "pre-search" would mean.

Yes, the FBI were coming no matter what. The subpoena from the FBI to Pence and his lawyers, as noted even in your AP article, used the J6 investigation as its pretext. If the FBI conducted the search because of the found documents, as many tell the story, the pretext on the subpoena would have listed the found documents. It doesn't. The subpoena was sought using the J6 investigation as a pretext. Pence's lawyers delayed the FBI by insisting on negotiating a schedule, and they used that time to have a team pre-search before the J6 subpoena search took place.

The J6 pretext used in the subpoena, the negotiation of schedule conducted by Pence's legal council, the search conducted by Pence's lawyers before the FBI got there, and the subsequent search conducted by the FBI is all in the AP article. I don't understand what you are taking issue with.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Are you trying to be obtuse?

No. I genuinely don't understand what One Brow is getting at. The AP said a thing. One Brow said the thing citing the AP article. I agreed the thing happened. Now One Brow is trying to imply some sort of difference between a 'pre-search' and a 'search conducted by Pence's legal team prior to a subsequent FBI search'. If you see something I'm clearly missing then please spell it out.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes, the FBI were coming not matter what. The subpoena from the FBI to Pence and his lawyers, as noted even in your AP article, used the J6 investigation as its pretext. If the FBI conducted the search because of the found documents, as many tell the story, the pretext on the subpoena would have listed the found documents. It doesn't. The subpoena was sought using the J6 investigation as a pretext. Pence's lawyers delayed the FBI by insisting on negotiating a schedule, and they used that time to have a team pre-search before the J6 subpoena search took place.

The J6 pretext used in the subpoena, the negotiation of schedule conducted by Pence's legal council, the search conducted by Pence's lawyers before the FBI got there, and the subsequent search conducted by the FBI is all in the AP article. I don't understand what you are taking issue with.

They delayed the fbi search? Sounds like obstruction of justice. Since Pence is a conservative there was no consequence of course.


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[One Brow]

Yes, the FBI were coming no matter what. The subpoena from the FBI to Pence and his lawyers, as noted even in your AP article, used the J6 investigation as its pretext.

The January 6th insurrection is a pretext (meaning not worthy of being investigated)? That's pretty far off the deep end.

I've been waiting for you to get around to this. What you are saying amounts to is Pence was being investigated for what role he might have played (as he considered playing one) in the insurrection, whereas four years earlier there was no insurrection for Biden to have played a part in, and that led to the Biden and Pence being treated differently. I am comfortable with people who considered participating in an insurrection being treated differently than people who did not. It in no way supports your position that their is some sort of bias in favor of liberals/Democrats (which sounds ridiculous on its face because the FBI is one of the most conservative sections of government).

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The January 6th insurrection is a pretext (meaning not worthy of being investigated)? That's pretty far off the deep end.

I've been waiting for you to get around to this. What you are saying amounts to is Pence was being investigated for what role he might have played (as he considered playing one) in the insurrection, whereas four years earlier there was no insurrection for Biden to have played a part in, and that led to the Biden and Pence being treated differently. I am comfortable with people who considered participating in an insurrection being treated differently than people who did not. It in no way supports your position that their is some sort of bias in favor of liberals/Democrats (which sounds ridiculous on its face because the FBI is one of the most conservative sections of government).

The events of January 6th are worthy of being investigated, but it is not probable cause for searching Mike Pence’s house for classified documents. Has anyone even alleged that Mike Pence had any role in fomenting the January 6th insurrection other than by doing his job of presiding over the ceremonial recognition of the Electoral College vote that happened a month earlier?

The events of January 6th were bad, but they have been used as a cudgel by law enforcement and the justice system to attack even conservatives such as Mike Pence who had nothing to do with any crimes that took place on that day. Pence may not have been charged but he doesn’t get back any of the considerable amount of money he had to spend on lawyers to deal with the FBI.

The events of January 6th have become an excuse to justify any gestapo tactics and if you object then you must be a supporter of insurrection. I don’t agree with that. I don’t think should be able to say “J6” and do whatever it wants, unconstrained by laws or legal precedent, and I really don’t like the way they are currently using it as a justification to influence the 2024 election.

 

[One Brow]

The events of January 6th are worthy of being investigated, but it is not probable cause for searching Mike Pence’s house for classified documents.

You said the subpoena did not mention classified documents. Further, from what I can construct of the timeline:

Pence conducts his search on or shortly before January 24
Pence is subpoenaed on or shortly before February 9
The FBI search is Feb 10

I am having trouble seeing how you fit your narrative into this timeline.

Has anyone even alleged that Mike Pence had any role in fomenting the January 6th insurrection other than by doing his job of presiding over the ceremonial recognition of the Electoral College vote that happened a month earlier?

It has been acknowledged that he considered playing a role, and sought the advice of counsel to see if he had other choices.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

You said the subpoena did not mention classified documents. Further, from what I can construct of the timeline:

Pence conducts his search on or shortly before January 24
Pence is subpoenaed on or shortly before February 9
The FBI search is Feb 10

I am having trouble seeing how you fit your narrative into this timeline.

February 9 was only the day Pence's lawyers received the actual subpoena. They knew long before then that the FBI were going to search Pence's home.

"The subpoena follows months of negotiations between federal prosecutors and Pence's legal team."

Mike Pence subpoenaed by special counsel overseeing Trump probes: Sources

Former Vice President Mike Pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel overseeing probes into former President Donald Trump, according to multiple sources.

abcnews.go.com

 

[One Brow]

February 9 was only the day Pence's lawyers received the actual subpoena. They knew long before then that the FBI were going to search Pence's home.

"The subpoena follows months of negotiations between federal prosecutors and Pence's legal team."

Mike Pence subpoenaed by special counsel overseeing Trump probes: Sources

Former Vice President Mike Pence has been subpoenaed by the special counsel overseeing probes into former President Donald Trump, according to multiple sources.

abcnews.go.com

How does this reconcile with Pence's motion to quash the subpoena in March, and only agreed to cooperate in April? He attempted to quash a subpoena he had already submitted to?

Your narrative is getting wilder and wilder. Do you have any evidence the subpoena included a search of Pence's home, as opposed to being for testimony only?

Pence attempt to quash is mostly online and makes no mention of a search:

Judge Unseals Documents Related to Pence Jan. 6 Subpoena

The redacted documents include Pence’s motion to quash the subpoena, the government’s opposition, Judge Boasberg’s opinion, and the hearing transcript.

www.lawfaremedia.org

The government's response to this motion makes no reference to a search:

https://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/Attachment%202.pdf

Why should I think the subpoena and the search are connected?

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Why should I think the subpoena and the search are connected?

Interesting that you didn't ask that of the original AP article you agreed with and cited as your source of information.

The reason for attempting to get the subpoena quashed after the search is because the subpoena was purposely broad. It wasn't limited to only searching his house but extended to gathering of pertinent information. Pence's lawyers had agreed to the FBI search because they had already conducted their own search and had a good idea of what the FBI would find. When the same pertinent information subpoena was later used to compel Pence to give information in the form of testimony, his lawyers balked. Negotiations happened, compromises were made, and the testimony happened.

 

[One Brow]

Interesting that you didn't ask that of the original AP article you agreed with and cited as your source of information.

The AP article did not claim the FBI search and subpoena were connected. Their only mention of the subpoena refers to it as a "separate investigation".

The reason for attempting to get the subpoena quashed after the search is because the subpoena was purposely broad. It wasn't limited to only searching his house but extended to gathering of pertinent information. Pence's lawyers had agreed to the FBI search because they had already conducted their own search and had a good idea of what the FBI would find. When the same pertinent information subpoena was later used to compel Pence to give information in the form of testimony, his lawyers balked. Negotiations happened, compromises were made, and the testimony happened.

You're using many suppositions that you have not given evidence for.

 

[The Thriller]

I thought this was an interesting piece on how Biden’s quiet, boring, and capable leadership might cost him the election to an electorate increasingly seeking entertainment through politics. Enjoy the article

Gift Article: Quiet Competence Could Cost Joe Biden the Election

Americans may claim to want less drama, but they’re addicted to it.

www.theatlantic.com