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LoPo

Well-Known Member
How is Allen even in the conversation here? He was damn near unplayable in the playoffs.

Personally, I don't think Rubio is much better than Conley defensively, at least the same weaknesses that were with Conley are still there (Versatility and being able to hide a weak defender) but there is an argument there. I can imagine being convinced but Allen? How?
I think Rubio and Conley are similar defensively. Thing is, Rubio would have cost us less than half the salary, and we would still have Grayson, Jae and others.

It's not about 1v1. It's about having a number of players to combat other teams.

We have zero depth. WHY? THE CONLEY TRADE

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Keefe

Well-Known Member
A lot Hinges on health. Brooklyn probably beats Boston if Simmons plays. Denver becomes a player in the west if their two stars are healthy. Same could be said about the clippers. Golden state goes down if Klay and/or Steph aren’t healthy.

We were healthy this playoffs and still sucked.

So Brooklyn goes from getting swept and showing no heart or will to win to winning the series all because of Ben Simmons? Gtfo.
 

Gameface

PICKS = FLEXIBILITY
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
So Brooklyn goes from getting swept and showing no heart or will to win to winning the series all because of Ben Simmons? Gtfo.
You know Ben Simmons, he's the ultimate heart and soul of a team type of guy. His unselfishness, his drive to make himself and his teammates better, his kindness and empathy, it is the ultimate glue for any team. Had Simmons been on the court that team would have gelled more than a Mormon family reunion pot luck.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member
So Brooklyn goes from getting swept and showing no heart or will to win to winning the series all because of Ben Simmons? Gtfo.
Simmons is a bad person. However, I do think if he had been healthy and playing that last month or two there’s definitely a chance that the Nets advance. He’s a hell of a player when he wants to be. The premium talent is there. Talent in this league wins.
 

infection

Well-Known Member
Staff member
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
Lame response.

Conley sapped all our cap space, cost us 3 good perimeter defenders (Rubio, Allen and Jae), and picks that could have helped us.
L

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Conley wasn’t the issue with cap space. The issue was that we had a very limited amount of time to make a move because Donovan was on a rookie scale. We were much farther along than we DL’s conservative cake-baking would allow him to believe, and thought we had a lot more runway than we really did. The issue was that we were conserving picks because we over hyped them after we landed Rudy and Donovan for garbage. DL kept talking about “keeping the powder dry.” We reached a dead-end in terms of when we needed to cash-in based on cap timing because Donovan jumping to a max would then take away that flexibility, so whoever we got had to be before that. We waited so long that it was Conley — for better or worse, whatever anyone’s opinion on him or the move was. The FO was too slow to realize that we needed to be buyers earlier than we were, and by the time we realized that, we were up against a wall on cap-timing.
 

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
Conley wasn’t the issue with cap space. The issue was that we had a very limited amount of time to make a move because Donovan was on a rookie scale. We were much farther along than we DL’s conservative cake-baking would allow him to believe, and thought we had a lot more runway than we really did. The issue was that we were conserving picks because we over hyped them after we landed Rudy and Donovan for garbage. DL kept talking about “keeping the powder dry.” We reached a dead-end in terms of when we needed to cash-in based on cap timing because Donovan jumping to a max would then take away that flexibility, so whoever we got had to be before that. We waited so long that it was Conley — for better or worse, whatever anyone’s opinion on him or the move was. The FO was too slow to realize that we needed to be buyers earlier than we were, and by the time we realized that, we were up against a wall on cap-timing.

This was so well written. Would rep if I could. Read and learn something LoPo.
 

Ferguson_Mellochill

Well-Known Member
2019 Prediction Contest Winner
Conley wasn’t the issue with cap space. The issue was that we had a very limited amount of time to make a move because Donovan was on a rookie scale. We were much farther along than we DL’s conservative cake-baking would allow him to believe, and thought we had a lot more runway than we really did. The issue was that we were conserving picks because we over hyped them after we landed Rudy and Donovan for garbage. DL kept talking about “keeping the powder dry.” We reached a dead-end in terms of when we needed to cash-in based on cap timing because Donovan jumping to a max would then take away that flexibility, so whoever we got had to be before that. We waited so long that it was Conley — for better or worse, whatever anyone’s opinion on him or the move was. The FO was too slow to realize that we needed to be buyers earlier than we were, and by the time we realized that, we were up against a wall on cap-timing.

The front office also made a bet that Gobert and Mitchell, supported by the likes of Conley, Bogdanovic, Ingles and Clarkson, would be a bonafide contender. Contracts for Conley, Ingles and Bogdanovic were synched up and were thought to give the Jazz a 3-year window of contention before moves would need to be made. Wow, that's four shooters and three playmakers on the floor all at the same time with a dominant rim presence.

In retrospect, that wasn't a good bet to make because neither Mitchell nor Gobert is a true franchise-type player, and the Jazz couldn't beat teams with more length, athleticism and floor balance. It was fine to give that group a run, but now it's time to make a real reset.
 

Hekate

Well-Known Member
2022 Prediction Contest Winner
S
I think Rubio and Conley are similar defensively. Thing is, Rubio would have cost us less than half the salary, and we would still have Grayson, Jae and others.

It's not about 1v1. It's about having a number of players to combat other teams.

We have zero depth. WHY? THE CONLEY TRADE

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
Sure, you can think that but I am more interested in how you included Allen as a good defender to strengthen your point.
 

Handlogten's Heros

Well-Known Member
2019 Award Winner
2020-21 Award Winner
Conley wasn’t the issue with cap space. The issue was that we had a very limited amount of time to make a move because Donovan was on a rookie scale. We were much farther along than we DL’s conservative cake-baking would allow him to believe, and thought we had a lot more runway than we really did. The issue was that we were conserving picks because we over hyped them after we landed Rudy and Donovan for garbage. DL kept talking about “keeping the powder dry.” We reached a dead-end in terms of when we needed to cash-in based on cap timing because Donovan jumping to a max would then take away that flexibility, so whoever we got had to be before that. We waited so long that it was Conley — for better or worse, whatever anyone’s opinion on him or the move was. The FO was too slow to realize that we needed to be buyers earlier than we were, and by the time we realized that, we were up against a wall on cap-timing.
I think keeping picks would have been fine. I actually think we needed to take a more aggressive approach in that we needed home runs. Needed to use those picks to find another contributor. I think we needed to use our cap space to find a couple Bogey level signings instead of making the move we knew was on the table. Ricky and Favs needed to be broken up after the 17-18 season... we waited an extra year to make that change. If we had made a smaller pivot and actually drafted well you may have set us up for long-term success. Having the extended time to see how this could develop would have been wise. I also just thought after Donovan's rookie year we should regard him as more a pg... why look for another pg. Ricky may have actually been fine there with Bogey as PF.

If you had the Favs pick back and our pick from this year those are the picks you cash in for win now moves... either last season or 19-20. You do the Aaron Gordon type deal.

Long and short of it imo is that we weren't winning a title with this group but we had our best shot IF we had one draft homerun and did well on the fringes of FA and trade. It was both the Conley deal and being a little conservative (keeping the powder dry) that hurt us.. but we could have kept the powder dry and been more aggressive. I won't kill them on the Conley trade because it was a reasonable rational deal. The other stuff was bad and was what really put a ceiling on our team.
 

KqWIN

Well-Known Member
Article on Ime Udoka....The Celtics were 16-19 and had well known chemistry issues. They couldn't make an open shot, were blowing leads like crazy, and had teammates calling each other out in public. Sound familiar? The difference is that the Celtics had an actual leader and their players followed. Quin preferred to pretend like issues didn't exist and coddled his players. He would let his players and team perform worse if it meant being less confrontational. He's a people pleaser and that does have his benefits. Udoka said **** that and might have told his team they were going to play the right way even if it put himself into hot water. The Celtics were right on the verge of blowing things up but he stayed course.

I hate the Celtics, but their turnaround this season is admirable. If you switch the coaches, the Celtics might be the one's talking about splitting up their stars and the Jazz could be in the finals.

theringer.com/2022/6/1/23149486/ime-udoka-boston-celtics-nba-finals
 


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