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The development of Schröder: a crystal ball for the development of Exum?

NAOS

Well-Known Member
NOTES:
*I think Exum's ceiling is higher than Schröder's. (Gotta put that out there first... for the haters).

*Last year in Atlanta Quin spent a lot of focused time with Dennis; so, given that Dennis and Dante have some similarities, Dennis' development might give us data for Exum's. Here's what I'm seeing:

*Dennis was held back in a serious way until he could consistently impact the game in a way that was good for the overall team concept AND consistent with his athletic gifts (speed, penetration, defense). He saw very little playing time last year, and didn't take the backup job from Mack until a few games into this season.

*Dennis has very specific marching orders: push the pace; put consistent pressure on the defense with penetration or the threat to drive; make the right play out of high screen-roll; find shooters on the perimeter; play good, consistent defense. That's it. Every moment on the floor has a knowable, limited script. This is in contrast to Orlando's play, for example. Vaughn lets Oladipo and Payton improvise out there, and you can see bad habits developing (Oladipo had 5 turnovers in the FIRST QUARTER last night). I'd also contrast this style with Corbin's use of Burke last year. While Burke's script was structured, he was, perhaps, asked to do too much.

*Dennis plays alongside Teague for short stretches. When he plays off the ball, his marching orders don't change. He's out on the perimeter like a shooter, and when he gets the ball he goes to work in the same way as when he brings it up. Exum is being asked to shoot the three more than Dennis is, which should give us some hope that Q sees more potential as a reliable shooter. In other words, "shoot it" is higher on the marching orders for Exum than for Dennis. Good.

*Atlanta fans have had to be patient. And they'll have to continue to be, because Dennis has a lot of things he'll have to improve before he sees more minutes. But, Teague isn't getting in his way... if Dennis earns them, they can play alongside one another, no problem. His minutes will probably come at Sefolosha's expense.
 
Everyone should be Repping b_line for his Gobert pick!!!

And me. You didn't update your list with my name, but I was in there with support for Gobert as being a "steal" - i.e. going late and having lottery pick value. Also said Giannis with the Jazz pick.

Post #100
"OK, in terms of a player outperforming his draft position, I'll go with Yogi Bear (Gobert). AS for who I want to see the Jazz pick at #14, I'm leaning toward Giannis. He's a project who has a chance at being a very special player. And that's what I want...someone who isn't going to come in, play amazing well and drop us from 5th to 9th for the 2014 draft. I want a guy who we look back and say he would have been a top-10 pick had he played for another year before declaring"

Damn, I'm good! Draft Giannis instead of Trey and then take Gobert.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?16884-Official-Thread-2013-Draft-JazzFanz-Homer-List/page7
 
And me. You didn't update your list with my name, but I was in there with support for Gobert as being a "steal" - i.e. going late and having lottery pick value. Also said Giannis with the Jazz pick.

Post #100
"OK, in terms of a player outperforming his draft position, I'll go with Yogi Bear (Gobert). AS for who I want to see the Jazz pick at #14, I'm leaning toward Giannis. He's a project who has a chance at being a very special player. And that's what I want...someone who isn't going to come in, play amazing well and drop us from 5th to 9th for the 2014 draft. I want a guy who we look back and say he would have been a top-10 pick had he played for another year before declaring"

Damn, I'm good! Draft Giannis instead of Trey and then take Gobert.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?16884-Official-Thread-2013-Draft-JazzFanz-Homer-List/page7

So.... you picked Gobert and got a "like" from Ellis269... but I got negs from my original post for picking Schroeder.


C'mon man, where's the JUSTICE???!!!???!!!
 
Dante has been as good as any other backup guard we've had in recent times - it's his rookie year.

So many impatient haters, he will blossom.

Good post regarding patience.


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As bad as Exum has been so far, Schroder was worse last season. So, I guess there is hope.

I think you Exum haters are hilarious. First off he's 19 (you should know this). Second of all if you really expect a 19 year old to come in the NBA with no professional basketball experience, and out of no-where, start producing big #'s, than you obviously don't understand professional basketball. You also obviously reveal your lack of knowledge and integrity towards the sport you speak so confidently about.
 
I think you Exum haters are hilarious. First off he's 19 (you should know this). Second of all if you really expect a 19 year old to come in the NBA with no professional basketball experience, and out of no-where, start producing big #'s, than you obviously don't understand professional basketball. You also obviously reveal your lack of knowledge and integrity towards the sport you speak so confidently about.
I don't think people expect big numbers
 
I think you Exum haters are hilarious. First off he's 19 (you should know this). Second of all if you really expect a 19 year old to come in the NBA with no professional basketball experience, and out of no-where, start producing big #'s, than you obviously don't understand professional basketball. You also obviously reveal your lack of knowledge and integrity towards the sport you speak so confidently about.

I don't hate Exum. Unlike you, I'm willing and able to see how bad he has been so far (he has been better the past 3 games). Here is every 19-year-old-and-under season in the history of the NBA:

https://bkref.com/tiny/xiyiI

Sorted by PER, Exum is 79th of 102, right beside "Jamal Sampson", whoever that is. Nearly everyone down there with him on the list turned out to be a bust (Milicic, Henry, Swift, Tskita, Koralev, etc).
 
I don't hate Exum. Unlike you, I'm willing and able to see how bad he has been so far (he has been better the past 3 games). Here is every 19-year-old-and-under season in the history of the NBA:

https://bkref.com/tiny/xiyiI

Sorted by PER, Exum is 79th of 102, right beside "Jamal Sampson", whoever that is. Nearly everyone down there with him on the list turned out to be a bust (Milicic, Henry, Swift, Tskita, Koralev, etc).
Who is Jackie Butler and how many things has he won? His PER is outstanding!
 
I don't hate Exum. Unlike you, I'm willing and able to see how bad he has been so far (he has been better the past 3 games). Here is every 19-year-old-and-under season in the history of the NBA:

https://bkref.com/tiny/xiyiI

Sorted by PER, Exum is 79th of 102, right beside "Jamal Sampson", whoever that is. Nearly everyone down there with him on the list turned out to be a bust (Milicic, Henry, Swift, Tskita, Koralev, etc).

tbh there're a lot of good players with horrible PERs to start their career. Also you have to compare the readiness of some players bodies and skillset and compare it accordingly IMO.
Exum is and will be a project and was drafted based on upside.
This roster is not a depleted Philly Freak Show where you get greenlight to do what you want and that also affects Exum. If you simply go by PER it will not favorize Exum simply because his usage is too low to be adequate in that department. It's also not unexpected with Utah's schedule strength that he's hitting the rookie wall very early. I think he'll improve/stabilize his shooting towards the end of the season.

For example look how close Parker and Livingston are to his PER values and both were huge projects with similar deficiencies that stopped them from having major impact and opportunity early in their careers. It's way too early to write him off.
 
Since you guys were talking PER of 1st year players turning into busts.

Lemme present an example that defies such notion.

Looking at Schröder's preformance last year. He was a pouting, edgy rook who fell in disgrace of his coach and spent a lot of time watching.

In his 49 games he averaged 13 min/game, 38% FG%, 23%3PT, 3.7 PPG, 1.9 APG.
His per 36 were 10.3 Points, 5.2 ***, 4.7 boards on 67% FT%. His ORtg was at 83, DRtg at 110

This year through 26 games and 480 minutes total he's posting 9.2 PPG, 3.5 APG, on 48% FG%, a still horrible 22% 3PT % and 78% from the charity line.
Per 36 his line looks the following: 17.8 Points, 6.8 dimes, 4.3 boards while committing 3.3 Turnover.
That already looks nicer but if I highlight the advanced development, it looks the following:

His PER rose from 5.8 to 17.5. His True shooting has increased from 44.2% to 55%(slightly above league avg afaik).
He lowered his 3 points attempts slightly but compared to field goal attempts his free throw attempts are now 10% higher than last year.

His assist ratio has gone up by 9% from 22 to 31. His steal ratio has doubled from 1.3 to an elite 2.7%
Had he played more minutes that would be the 11th best value in the league.+

He lowered his Turnover percentage from almost 23 to 17, at the same time his usage% has increased by 6% from 19 to 25.
And his win shares suggest he's performing at a starter level.

So be patient and don't panic every time you fear Exum might not become a GOAT. He probably won't. But you don't need to be goat to be good in the NBA. He has a lot of good attributes that can be developed into lethal weapons. If he still struggles by the end of next year, we can talk again and I'll still tell you to be patient. And if he's not ready by the start of year 3, then I'll borrow some asthma spray and get all nauseous.
 
Sorted by PER, Exum is 79th of 102, right beside "Jamal Sampson", whoever that is. Nearly everyone down there with him on the list turned out to be a bust (Milicic, Henry, Swift, Tskita, Koralev, etc).

And Marvin Williams > Kobe, Durant, McGrady
 
I don't hate Exum. Unlike you, I'm willing and able to see how bad he has been so far (he has been better the past 3 games). Here is every 19-year-old-and-under season in the history of the NBA:

https://bkref.com/tiny/xiyiI

Sorted by PER, Exum is 79th of 102, right beside "Jamal Sampson", whoever that is. Nearly everyone down there with him on the list turned out to be a bust (Milicic, Henry, Swift, Tskita, Koralev, etc).

"Unlike me?" I don't really know what to say. I think if I hated him I wouldn't be defending him. And by the look of the previous posts by other members, they have already handled my "lightweight". :)
 
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