7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
So this is a carryover from the Jazz-Pacer game thread that just got closed because a Rap debate broke out. I pretty much drew the ire of everyone involved in the discussion as I questioned the artistic integrity of Rap music as a whole. I was called a stupid racist amongst other things, told I was painting rap music with too broad a brush, etc. I was pretty intrigued that people were passionate enough about Rap that they almost immediately resorted to name calling and I wanted to continue the discussion here. This will be a bit long, but for those of you who came at me in that thread, I wanted to lay out my case with a little bit more detail.
-First and foremost, let me make it abundantly clear (yet again) that I understand that Rap music has been the biggest movement in music over the last 30 years. I'm not here to degrade the impact it has on our culture. To try and sum up how I feel about Rap music, I'm going to use Chuck D (Public Enemy, Prophets of Rage) as an example. Chuck D is a guy with a lot of important things to say. He is the type of guy who makes a case for social change and injustices and has done so for over 3 decades. The vehicle that Chuck decided to use to get his message out was Rap music. It was a smart move. In hindsight, he chose the best format he possibly could to get his message out to the masses. Now with that being said, while I may think that the messages Chuck has are important and need to be heard, that doesn't mean that I think that he's musician. I think he's a guy who found a great medium to deliver his spoken word message and ran with it. It seems that the Rap fans in this forum bristle at the opinion that laying down some synthesized beats, or in many cases, beats that were written and performed by other musicians and putting your lyrics over the top of them decreases my opinion that you are an artist. If you enjoy rap music, that's great. If you want to tell me that these performers are every bit the caliber of artists that are out there in other genres writing and performing their music from scratch, that's fine too. Just don't expect me to agree and don't come at me with accusations of being racist or question my intelligence because I disagree with you. I like punk music. It's not even close to being my favorite genre of music but I still enjoy listening to it. When somebody tells me that punk music is usually simple song structures with 3 guitar chords throughout the songs with simple drum beats and 7th grade lyrics, guess what? I agree with them. When I'm listening to punk, I'm not listening for complexity and virtuosity. I'm listening because I love the aggression and the release that the music provides. I never feel the need to prop up punk music at something it's not.
-I got a lot of people's attention when I mentioned that rap music generally deals with topics such as money, drugs, degrading women, and constant use of racial slurs. I was immediately condemned for being an uneducated fiend who was talking out of his *** and painting rap with too broad a brush. That made me do some digging. I started looking at the top selling rap albums of all time, the biggest singles of all time, etc. I found something pretty interesting via Billboard. They have a list of the top 10 selling rap series of all time. I felt this was a very relevant list because it didn't just target the top 10 albums, it dove into the artists that have had a pretty big cultural impact releasing a series of albums under the same theme. Here's a quick look at the list as it stood in October of 2016:
10- Jadakiss, Kiss Series
9- Nicki Minaj, Pink Series
8- The Game, The Documentary
7- Ja Rule, Pain Is Love 1-2
6- Method Man, Tical
5- Jeezy, Thug Motivation
4- Jay Z, Blueprint Trilogy
3- Lil Wayne, The Carter 1-4
2- Jay Z, Volumes
1- Eminem, Marshall Mathers Lp's
I found it interesting that while I'm accused of painting rap music with too broad a brush, that in looking at this Top 10 list, ALL 10 artists on the list have extremely heavy content of drugs, money, violence, and racial overtones. In looking at Billboard's Top 10 selling rap albums of all time, the results were extremely similar. 8 out of the 10 artists on that list sing about the topics that I've called rap out on. The 2 exclusions being MC Hammer and The Beastie Boys (The Beastie Boys play their own instruments quite often on their albums btw). So while you may accuse me of lumping all rap in together, I'll counter with the fact that my synopsis of rap just happens to be accurate in regards to the type of album that everybody is buying. Sure, there are some artists out there trying to buck the trend, but record sales show me that what has always moved rap albums off the shelves is the exact type of content that I've been calling into question.
Just my opinion, but I don't think Rap can get out of it's own way. I have people in here telling me I'm ignoring the well intentioned artists that have a positive message to send. In looking at all of the metrics that I can get my hands on, it appears that most rap fans are ignoring those artists just as much as I am. For every 1 Chuck D or Chance the Rapper that you can find, it looks like there's 10 Lil Wayne's and Ja Rule's flooding the market.
- I guess my overall argument in a nutshell is: Of course there are Rappers out there with something important to say. I just happen to see those men and women as spoken word artists much more than I see them as actual musicians. I also feel like it's more than fair to say that the stunning majority of relevant Rap artists are rapping about negative, self-indulgent, nonsense which makes it extremely hard for me to take the genre seriously.
Thanks for reading. If you can at least see the logic behind my argument, cool. If you still think I'm an ***-backwards racist, well, I still hope you have a nice day.
-First and foremost, let me make it abundantly clear (yet again) that I understand that Rap music has been the biggest movement in music over the last 30 years. I'm not here to degrade the impact it has on our culture. To try and sum up how I feel about Rap music, I'm going to use Chuck D (Public Enemy, Prophets of Rage) as an example. Chuck D is a guy with a lot of important things to say. He is the type of guy who makes a case for social change and injustices and has done so for over 3 decades. The vehicle that Chuck decided to use to get his message out was Rap music. It was a smart move. In hindsight, he chose the best format he possibly could to get his message out to the masses. Now with that being said, while I may think that the messages Chuck has are important and need to be heard, that doesn't mean that I think that he's musician. I think he's a guy who found a great medium to deliver his spoken word message and ran with it. It seems that the Rap fans in this forum bristle at the opinion that laying down some synthesized beats, or in many cases, beats that were written and performed by other musicians and putting your lyrics over the top of them decreases my opinion that you are an artist. If you enjoy rap music, that's great. If you want to tell me that these performers are every bit the caliber of artists that are out there in other genres writing and performing their music from scratch, that's fine too. Just don't expect me to agree and don't come at me with accusations of being racist or question my intelligence because I disagree with you. I like punk music. It's not even close to being my favorite genre of music but I still enjoy listening to it. When somebody tells me that punk music is usually simple song structures with 3 guitar chords throughout the songs with simple drum beats and 7th grade lyrics, guess what? I agree with them. When I'm listening to punk, I'm not listening for complexity and virtuosity. I'm listening because I love the aggression and the release that the music provides. I never feel the need to prop up punk music at something it's not.
-I got a lot of people's attention when I mentioned that rap music generally deals with topics such as money, drugs, degrading women, and constant use of racial slurs. I was immediately condemned for being an uneducated fiend who was talking out of his *** and painting rap with too broad a brush. That made me do some digging. I started looking at the top selling rap albums of all time, the biggest singles of all time, etc. I found something pretty interesting via Billboard. They have a list of the top 10 selling rap series of all time. I felt this was a very relevant list because it didn't just target the top 10 albums, it dove into the artists that have had a pretty big cultural impact releasing a series of albums under the same theme. Here's a quick look at the list as it stood in October of 2016:
10- Jadakiss, Kiss Series
9- Nicki Minaj, Pink Series
8- The Game, The Documentary
7- Ja Rule, Pain Is Love 1-2
6- Method Man, Tical
5- Jeezy, Thug Motivation
4- Jay Z, Blueprint Trilogy
3- Lil Wayne, The Carter 1-4
2- Jay Z, Volumes
1- Eminem, Marshall Mathers Lp's
I found it interesting that while I'm accused of painting rap music with too broad a brush, that in looking at this Top 10 list, ALL 10 artists on the list have extremely heavy content of drugs, money, violence, and racial overtones. In looking at Billboard's Top 10 selling rap albums of all time, the results were extremely similar. 8 out of the 10 artists on that list sing about the topics that I've called rap out on. The 2 exclusions being MC Hammer and The Beastie Boys (The Beastie Boys play their own instruments quite often on their albums btw). So while you may accuse me of lumping all rap in together, I'll counter with the fact that my synopsis of rap just happens to be accurate in regards to the type of album that everybody is buying. Sure, there are some artists out there trying to buck the trend, but record sales show me that what has always moved rap albums off the shelves is the exact type of content that I've been calling into question.
Just my opinion, but I don't think Rap can get out of it's own way. I have people in here telling me I'm ignoring the well intentioned artists that have a positive message to send. In looking at all of the metrics that I can get my hands on, it appears that most rap fans are ignoring those artists just as much as I am. For every 1 Chuck D or Chance the Rapper that you can find, it looks like there's 10 Lil Wayne's and Ja Rule's flooding the market.
- I guess my overall argument in a nutshell is: Of course there are Rappers out there with something important to say. I just happen to see those men and women as spoken word artists much more than I see them as actual musicians. I also feel like it's more than fair to say that the stunning majority of relevant Rap artists are rapping about negative, self-indulgent, nonsense which makes it extremely hard for me to take the genre seriously.
Thanks for reading. If you can at least see the logic behind my argument, cool. If you still think I'm an ***-backwards racist, well, I still hope you have a nice day.
