The Honesty of Transgender Identity

[AlaskanAssassin]

Feels more like some women don't like the idea of feminism evolving and changing focus.

Yeah, many probably want feminism to focus on advocating for women's rights. Is there something wrong with that?

Feminism: Noun - the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

 

[Gameface]

I don't understand the question and I have never heard the term TERF.

I would imagine that if you polled women who consider themselves feminists, the majority would prefer that Feminism focus on advocating women's rights and the equality of sexes.

I put the words "trans-exclusionary radical feminism" in the post. That's what TERF stands for.

You basically presented the argument that gender critical feminists and TERFs feel the way they do about transgender women because an older transgender woman won the woman of the year award. I was curious if you felt there might be more to it or if that was really what you think the basis of their position is?

 

[Gameface]

Yeah, many probably want feminism to focus on advocating for women's rights. Is there something wrong with that?

Feminism: Noun - the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

Feminism can focus on women's rights without excluding transgender women. If "the sexes" deserve equality then obviously trans women should also benefit from that equality as well, no?

 

[Hekate]

Yeah, many probably want feminism to focus on advocating for women's rights. Is there something wrong with that?

Feminism: Noun - the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes.

Try telling that to someone whose field of study includes linguistics.

Edit: There is a reason why you hear about Trans-exclusionary radical feminists and not Trans-inclusionary feminists. Idea of feminism mostly evolved with the 3rd wave towards diversity and inclusiveness. A short sentence doesn't do much justice to what feminism really is.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I put the words "trans-exclusionary radical feminism" in the post. That's what TERF stands for.

I saw that, I've just never heard the term before and I don't know how or if it's supposed to differ from "gender critical feminists".

You basically presented the argument that gender critical feminists and TERFs feel the way they do about transgender women because an older transgender woman won the woman of the year award. I was curious if you felt there might be more to it or if that was really what you think the basis of their position is?

Well, I wasn't presenting a formal argument......and I think most people should be able to tell that a post like this is at least partially made in jest. There is irony in the described situation. I'm sure these "traditional feminist" women occupy the position they do for a variety of reasons, and I'm not the right person to try and explain all of those.

That being said, I think any reasonable person can try and see the situation from their perspective. Imagine being a feminist that has fought for equality of the sexes for decades. You have experienced sexism in the workplace, unfair pay, unequal health care, worked tirelessly for Title IX, and battled and fought your entire career for the equality of the sexes. After all of this, instead of you or your colleagues being recognized for your tireless efforts, an award like this is given to someone that has only recently transitioned to being a woman.

 

[fishonjazz]

To me, the people who said, what's next, letting people marry their dog is far more ignorant and offensive.


Correct me if I'm wrong but gender, race and ethnicity are all social constructs. Why is it more absurd if someone feels they're a different race than someone who feels they were born with the wrong genitals?

Honestly I don't give a **** if someone marries their dog

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[Gameface]

Honestly I don't give a **** if someone marries their dog

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A person might be able to marry a dog, but a dog can't marry a person. The dog lacks the ability to understand the concept.

 

[One Brow]

So, if a transgender person is convicted of fraud at some point in their life, then they're not transgender?

Not what I said. First, we were discussing whether Dolezal believes she is black. Second, my skepticism does not affect anyone else's reality. Third, increase skepticism does not equate to a refusal to believe.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

A person might be able to marry a dog, but a dog can't marry a person. The dog lacks the ability to understand the concept.

A dog doesn't understand the concept of purchasing something........but I can purchase a dog.

Maybe I'm thinking about this too hard.

 

[fishonjazz]

A person might be able to marry a dog, but a dog can't marry a person. The dog lacks the ability to understand the concept.

Ok. I still don't give a **** if someone marries their dog.

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[One Brow]

I would imagine that if you polled women who consider themselves feminists, the majority would prefer that Feminism focus on advocating women's rights and the equality of sexes.

Which you can do regardless of whether you decide to define "woman" biologically.

 

[One Brow]

That being said, I think any reasonable person can try and see the situation from their perspective. Imagine being a feminist that has fought for equality of the sexes for decades. You have experienced sexism in the workplace, unfair pay, unequal health care, worked tirelessly for Title IX, and battled and fought your entire career for the equality of the sexes. After all of this, instead of you or your colleagues being recognized for your tireless efforts, an award like this is given to someone that has only recently transitioned to being a woman.

I recall a parable about workers in the field getting the same pay for the whole day and for a single hour.

"Woman of the Year" seems, by definition, not to be a lifetime achievement award.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

Ok. I still don't give a **** if someone marries their dog.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I recall a parable about workers in the field getting the same pay for the whole day and for a single hour.

"Woman of the Year" seems, by definition, not to be a lifetime achievement award.

Feel free to share the parable of the workers in the vineyard with some of these traditional feminists. I'm sure you'll get a warm response.

 

[One Brow]

Feel free to share the parable of the workers in the vineyard with some of these traditional feminists. I'm sure you'll get a warm response.

Depends on the feminist. Mot of the feminists I read are inclusionary, and understand the huge life difficulties that would have been faced by a woman who had to live as a man for 50+ years.

 

[LogGrad98]

Honestly I don't give a **** if someone marries their dog

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Thanks fish. I knew you got me.

 

[LogGrad98]

That lucky lucky woman.

 

[Archie Moses]

Honestly I don't give a **** if someone marries their dog

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Yea I can see how that comparison is ignorant and offensive.

And, by yeah, I'm not really down for people humpingvtheir dogs and their dogs getting benefits.

 

[Archie Moses]

Not what I said. First, we were discussing whether Dolezal believes she is black. Second, my skepticism does not affect anyone else's reality. Third, increase skepticism does not equate to a refusal to believe.

1) So you don't believe she's black. No problem. I don't either.
2) I imagine people's skepticism of transgender does, in fact, affect their reality.
3) Sure. It doesn't equate to believing either.

 

[Hotdog]

Ok. I still don't give a **** if someone marries their dog.

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What if your daughter wants to marry a dog? I say go for it. I think people should marry who they want.