The Jazz rebuild

[@nsanba]

Yesterday on twitter I posted a message that read:

"Jazz fans should prepare themselves cause the Jazz might have botched the rebuild"

Let me just say that wasn't very well accepted by the good twitter folks out there. But what I thought was kind of troubling was that I was accused of having a simplistic view of the problem. Something like "jazz aren't contending right now, so rebuilding failed". Well let me explain in more than 140 carachters what I meant.

Why have the Jazz gone into the doldrums of the NBA? Why haven't they retained any good player they have had in the last few years and let all of them walk? Mostly cause they were afraid of being saddled with na average team. Yet I look at the team that was assembled to replace those "average" players and see very little signs of absolute stardom from the players now on the Jazz team. I see glimpses like everyone else but nothing more.

Not only that but most of the starting five are entering their 4th and 5th years in the NBA. Why is this importante? Cause you can hardly find a true relation between age and development in the NBA. BUT you can find a clear correlation between experience and development. Most jumps in prodution occur between the 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th season. That means that we might be looking at a much more finished product than we're willing to aknowledge. I'M NOT SAYING THE PLAYERS CAN'T PROGRESS. I'm saying that if they do in any significant way they will be, in a way, beating the odds.

So who is G and Favs, for instance? Borderline All-Stars? Wasn't that what we had before in Millsap and Big Al? Did we go trough the doldrums to end up moving sideways?

Thing is we should know by now the answer's to the questions listed above. The "not-so-young" core should have played much more and the FO should have a much better understanding of who they are. But they didn't. They didn't have a clear picture of who they are individually and they certainly haven't figured out if the mesh well together.

What other reason was there to not compete? The idea the Jazz needed to go into high lottery cause they wouldn't be able to retain talent or recrut talent. So think about it this way.....pick any player you want on the team to build the team around. When the Jazz are ready to contend they will have to have signed a new contract with the team before that happens. So why did the Jazz tank?

The Jazz are paying players a ton of Money, will have a hard time making trades cause there's no players out there that make sense and the players the Jazz have are very hard to trade for one reason or another.

Not only that but the Jazz are failing they're own standards for the season:
* play with the pass? no
* obvious unselfishness? not quite
* play better defense? hardly
* play with pace? no
* attack at the 45º? yes

It's not like I haven't seen the Jazz progresso this season. Some progress has been made. But the signs aren't pointing into the rebuild being a sucess story just of yet. In fact they might be pointing in the other diretion.

RANT OVER.

 

[freakazoid]

Really, the only considerable mistake Utah made was not trading Al and/or Sap during the lockout season. As I remember, most fans supported our push for the 8th seed, so our chance for a quick rebuild was trashed in favor of the great experience 4 asskickings by the Spurs would provide. Most fans got what they wanted, so now you have to live with the consequences, which is an extended rebuild.
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Also, nothing bugs me more than fans assuming we could have kept either Sap or Al. They were both unrestricted, and Utah was not in a position to convince either of them to re-up. Suppose Utah had kept one, we would be stuck trying to compete with mediocre players. I guess some people would rather be perpetually stuck in the land of meh, but our FO is doing things EXACTLY the way they should, and if they had only started a year and a half earlier, I think we're back in the playoffs right now.
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Ultimately, it comes down to the fact we just don't have the players to compete in any significant way. Maybe mediocrity is good enough for some, but I long for the days when Utah was always at the top of the league. That's not happening without getting a few star players, and you can't just assume all of your draft picks are going to work out. You keep stockpiling picks and young players until you strike gold, at which point you can cash in some of those assets for an established vet or two. I think Utah is closer to this point than some might think.
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Anyway, if somebody can come up with a better idea, I'd love to hear it. I'm frustrated that we didn't start our rebuild when we should have, but there's nothing we can do about it now. I, for one, am just grateful that Utah at least started rebuilding the right way, rather than chasing the 8th seed every year.
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One of the best examples of teams that we don't want to be is that Detroit team where Dumars gave big contracts to Gordon and Villanueva. That kind of crap happens when you let yourself think you have to compete immediately, rather than being patient and waiting for the right circumstances. Also, the New York Knicks are a team that doesn't build through the draft, and they have a HUGE advantage over us when it comes to FAs. Honestly, I'd much rather be in our current situation than try to be the Knicks without the FA draw. That would be a friggin' disaster.
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Ultimately, we are really only in our second season of rebuilding, and rebuilds take time. I think the biggest thing people are missing is that Utah IS in a position to make a significant trade sometime in the next year. Regardless of what we think of young players, they certainly do have trade value, and when you package a pick or two with those young players, opportunities to take the next step will be there. Obviously nothing is guaranteed, but I'd rather be patient and take our best shot at starting something special, rather than giving up and deciding that mediocrity is good enough.

 

[GVC]

our FO is doing things EXACTLY the way they should

What a crock of ****.

Note: It was the season after the lockout when Al and Sap were expiring. The Jazz made the playoffs in the lockout year (2011-12).

The summer of 2012 was when DL took over. He inherited a fringe playoff/treadmill team, with two fringe all-stars and a bunch of cheap, young controllable players picked in the lottery. In 2 seasons and 3 offseasons, he's yet to make a trade involving long-term players, let those fringe all-stars walk, and overpaid to keep what now look like solid role players approaching their physical prime. The asset base is far worse today than it was when DL took over, and the on-court product is garbage. DL is looking like one of the worst GMs in the NBA.

 

[VINYLONE]

DL is looking like one of the worst GMs in the NBA.

What's the timeline on something like this. I mean, if we don't improve from this year til next and then the next, I guess it would be true but if we do. Would your statement still ring true.

Also, what are you using as a barometer?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We failed the retool effort by trying to skip steps and players not developing fast enough.

The rebuild really started in earnest last year. I don't think DL really had full control the first year as I think if he did then Corbin would not have been our coach. I like 90 percent of what DL has done. He's had a few small missteps no doubt... Letting Carroll go was not smart and I was puzzled from the get go on the Novak deal but I do think he's got us on the right track. Our starters are good but young... Our bench is garbage and that could have been addressed but intentionally wasn't. I think we are once again in tank mode... Be patient or stop watching... You can always jump back on the bandwagon when we are good again.

 

[freakazoid]

What a crock of ****.

Note: It was the season after the lockout when Al and Sap were expiring. The Jazz made the playoffs in the lockout year (2011-12).

The summer of 2012 was when DL took over. He inherited a fringe playoff/treadmill team, with two fringe all-stars and a bunch of cheap, young controllable players picked in the lottery. In 2 seasons and 3 offseasons, he's yet to make a trade involving long-term players, let those fringe all-stars walk, and overpaid to keep what now look like solid role players approaching their physical prime. The asset base is far worse today than it was when DL took over, and the on-court product is garbage. DL is looking like one of the worst GMs in the NBA.

The word "exactly" was an exaggeration on my part, I'll give you that. An overreaction, perhaps because of all the complaining that seems to me the result of unrealistic expectations.
The lockout year was the year that could have been huge in our rebuild. And yes, I know we made the playoffs that year, which is why I referenced the 4 asskickings. We still could have traded either/both of them the next year, but it wouldn't have had near the impact on our rebuild. Compared to that missed opportunity, everything else is nitpicking, IMO.
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I was against matching Gordo, but so far it looks a whole lot better than I thought it would. Jury is still out on Hayward. Burks is worrisome, but I don't see a whole lot of better alternatives, without jumping to some very iffy conclusions about our ability to sign any FAs.
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I hear all kinds of complaining, but I have yet to hear better plan, other than expecting us to have kept a couple of unrestricted FAs, when they had plenty of opportunities elsewhere. The reasoning behind not moving Al/Sap when they were expiring, was the same faulty reasoning for not moving them the year before, because we were trying to sneak into the 8th seed. The stakes were much higher during the lockout. We probably could have kept Al(this board would have **** bricks to pay like that), but I doubt Sap ever really considered coming back. Anyway, this is really playing out exactly the way I said it would back when everyone was so determined to take on the Spurs as an 8th seed, other than I didn't think there was any way we would have let Al/Sap walk for nothing.
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As for DL being one of the worst in the league, I think you're reaching. Way too soon to be making a judgement like that. Honestly, I would have expected you to be a little more level-headed about the situation and what it takes to turn a team around in a small market like Utah.

In 2 seasons and 3 offseasons, he's yet to make a trade involving long-term players, .

Also, thank God for this. We need star players, and the draft is the most likely place to find them. I would have preferred moving Al and Sap for rebuilding pieces, but other than that I have few complaints.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I miss the days the Jazz were contenders.
But mostly I miss the days that;
GVC was stoned, and
Freak was trashed

 

[freakazoid]

Our bench is garbage and that could have been addressed but intentionally wasn't. I think we are once again in tank mode... Be patient or stop watching... You can always jump back on the bandwagon when we are good again.

This.

 

[[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]]

What's the timeline on something like this. I mean, if we don't improve from this year til next and then the next, I guess it would be true but if we do. Would your statement still ring true.

Also, what are you using as a barometer?

This is the type of fan that ticket sales are targeted towards. Young and gullible.

 

[GVC]

As for DL being one of the worst in the league, I think you're reaching. Way too soon to be making a judgement like that. Honestly, I would have expected you to be a little more level-headed about the situation and what it takes to turn a team around in a small market like Utah.

I was trying to be provocative.

Also, thank God for this. We need star players, and the draft is the most likely place to find them.

I think you've missed my point. The asset base is worse today than it was when DL took control, and the team is terrible. He could have turned Al and/or Sap into something, and he could have tried to move young pieces for other young pieces/draft picks before they turned into pumpkins/were overpaid. In isolation, Gordo, favs and maybe Burks at their salaries aren't terrible. Those 3 getting $38mil per year combined is troubling. DL really hasn't done anything to this point. Neither Dieng+Muhammad for Burke+Gobert nor cap space from Al+Sap for Hood and what's likely to be a late 1st in 2017 look like moves that move the needle much at all. It's early, sure, but the returns thus far are ****. He's effectively been inactive each season from October through June.

I have mixed feelings about tanking. As it stands, the Jazz need more talent. DL should be trying to acquire that talent through trades, free agency and the draft. Overpaying the <25 players, letting everyone else walk, and crossing your fingers generally leads to becoming a perennial cellar dweller.

 

[VINYLONE]

This is the type of fan that ticket sales are targeted towards. Young and gullible.

Explain to me, specifically, what I'm being young and gullible about?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Exum/Hayward/Favors/ and a stud yet to be drafted would give us the talent to really contend.

Jazz are following a plan to upgrade our talent via the draft.

Burke hasn't panned out. Kanter might be better coming off the bench.

 

[freakazoid]

I was trying to be provocative.



I think you've missed my point. The asset base is worse today than it was when DL took control, and the team is terrible. He could have turned Al and/or Sap into something, and he could have tried to move young pieces for other young pieces/draft picks before they turned into pumpkins/were overpaid. In isolation, Gordo, favs and maybe Burks at their salaries aren't terrible. Those 3 getting $38mil per year combined is troubling. DL really hasn't done anything to this point. Neither Dieng+Muhammad for Burke+Gobert nor cap space from Al+Sap for Hood and what's likely to be a late 1st in 2017 look like moves that move the needle much at all. It's early, sure, but the returns thus far are ****. He's effectively been inactive each season from October through June.

I have mixed feelings about tanking. As it stands, the Jazz need more talent. DL should be trying to acquire that talent through trades, free agency and the draft. Overpaying the <25 players, letting everyone else walk, and crossing your fingers generally leads to becoming a perennial cellar dweller.

No guarantees with rebuilding. Just the same, I'm fine with it considering the alternative of just trying to tread water. I'm excited about Exum and I like the scenario we're facing in the offseason. Guess we'll all just have to wait it out and see what happens.

As it stands, the Jazz need more talent. DL should be trying to acquire that talent through trades, free agency and the draft.

I agree with this, however I see our greatest chance of returning to glory being high draft picks, and therefore at this point, trades that immediately improve us would be defeating the purpose. Same thing with FAs. I appreciate what looks to be a commitment to building through the draft, rather than trying to "remain relevant" and hope to get our next John and Karl by drafting in the teens.

 

[Doublea]

I can't believe we aren't NBA contenders after one year of a rebuild as well.

Coach Quinn? Yeah, fire that guy. He obviously has no idea what he's doing cause it doesn't take time to implement a system and make a bunch of young players good.

Dennis Lindsay? I hate that's he kept flexibility instead of being like the pelicans and locking everybody up!

 

[GVC]

No guarantees with rebuilding. Just the same, I'm fine with it considering the alternative of just trying to tread water. I'm excited about Exum and I like the scenario we're facing in the offseason. Guess we'll all just have to wait it out and see what happens.

Trying to build a competitive team and win games isn't treading water. I actually enjoy watching basketball, but unfortunately for the third straight season don't have a team to watch.

The Jazz had two franchise players for ~20 years, and still didn't win a title. They fielded several contenders, and were almost always competitive and enjoyable before DL took over. This sit around and do nothing, while praying that a generational talent falls in your lap strategy is ********.

DL screwed up Al/Sap, he misread the market for Hayward, he overpaid Burks, and has done little else of note. Dante doesn't look like an NBA player right now.

 

[GVC]

Dennis Lindsay? I hate that's he kept flexibility instead of being like the pelicans and locking everybody up!

Uh...Gordo, Favs and Burks are locked up for ~$38mil per season combined. Al and Sap are better players than those 3.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Uh...Gordo, Favs and Burks are locked up for ~$38mil per season combined. All and Sap are better players than those 3.

I disagree. A frontcourt relying on Al and Millsap aren't getting out of the first round, assuming they make the playoffs. Gordo, Favs and Burks are assets worth keeping.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

I'm excited about Exum...

Where do I get the Exum Beer Goggles so I can be excited too? He has done nothing, zip, nada all season, pre-season, at the world championships and in summer league.

Exum hasn't scored 20 in the last 8 Jazz games combined, despite averaging nearly 20 minutes per. He's shooting 23% from the field and 15% from 3land. He's averaging about 1 assist and 1 TO per. So exciting...

 

[Doublea]

Where do I get the Exum Beer Goggles so I can be excited too? He has done nothing, zip, nada all season, pre-season, at the world championships and in summer league.

Incidentally, Muhammad has scored 20 in three of his past five games. Exum hasn't scored 20 in the last 8 Jazz games combined, despite averaging nearly 20 minutes per. He's shooting 23% from the field and 15% from 3land. He's averaging about 1 assist and 1 TO per. So exciting...

Good thing you aren't a GM or someone who has to evaluate talent.

 

[GVC]

I disagree. A frontcourt relying on Al and Millsap aren't getting out of the first round, assuming they make the playoffs. Gordo, Favs and Burks are assets worth keeping.

A team relying on Hayward, Favors and Burks isn't sniffing the playoffs, despite being paid $15mil more per season...