The NBA Center position is dead, or is it??? (Gobert Love)

[Lakers_Slapper]

For years teams have worked to transformed their Centers into mid to full range jump shooters. Some players (Like JaVale McGee) have claimed that the Center position is one that the NBA is trying to phase out. I call that a bunch of BS. The fact is there are not Centers who want to go through the grind and toughness it takes to be a true center, so they "develop" a shooting game, when they should be down in the post banging for rebounds, manliness, and bragging rights.
Shaq recently said that if he played in today's NBA he would average 50 without free throws and the sad thing is that he is most likely right. The Lakers have even been working with Kuzma preparing him to play the 5 spot in limited time situations.
I feel that Gobert is what the NBA is missing. A true big man who continues to develop his game around the rim. I feel he has proved that there is an extremely valuable spot for a true center in the NBA, as long as they are willing to go through the work that comes with it.
I would like to get the rest of the Jazzfanz take on this in an open discussion. Do you feel that having a true center may be an advantage in this day, or do you feel that the Center position is best left as a 3 point marksmen?

 

[Deleted member 95]

There will always be value in having a center that gets easy buckets around the rim matched with 3 pt shooters. It's too easy of a shot and the value compared to the 3 pt shot is similiar. It also helps pull defenders away to create floor spacing. If fact I say it's the most critical part to make a mostly three point shooting team work. Not groundbreaking stuff.

Sent from my XT1575 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[JazzFanInNuggetLand]

If he would've developed correctly, I think that you would have seen that dominant center in Dwight Howard. Also, there is probably a reason that Ayton has been so hyped. I believe that he is closer to that traditional center type.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The center position is pretty close to dead. The game has changed so much just in the last 5-7 years. There aren’t as many good centers today because most aren’t built to defend in today’s NBA with all the floor spacing and switching. Can you imagine Mark Eaton trying to guard Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook? In today’s nba we would think of him as a Matadore type defender. If you put Rudy in the 90’s he probably averages an ungodly amount of blocks. Centers today have to be able to guard in space, as there is very little postup offense, and guys like Eaton can’t do that.

This is what makes Gobert special. Few centers have the combination of length and speed that Gobert has, giving him the ability to guard wings on the perimeter and in space while also being able to guard in the post as well. Very few centers are able to do all three. This is why the center position is just about dead, because few bigs can guard and be affective at all three levels

1. Guard smaller players on the perimeter
2. Guard in space
3. Guard in the post.

Right off the top of my head, I can only think of two true 7-0 guys that can do all three, Rudy and the Brow. If I cared to think about it some more I might come up with maybe 1 or 2 others.

Few centers can meet all of the demands of todays game. Eaton in today’s game would be a disaster in today’s NBA because he was stuck in one spot due to his lack of athleticism and mobility.

Am I wrong?

 

[slc]

What about Mo Bamba
He is going to be terrific
His upside is Gobert like

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

What about Mo Bamba
He is going to be terrific
His upside is Gobert like

Yes, I would put him in that category that can do all three, maybe Embiid as well

 

[gomretat]

So its not dead at all but it is becoming the type of skill needed is certainly evolving.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The primary role of a center these days is to protect the rim and rebound. Teams still need a defensive anchor. On offense, it's nice if the center can also make some shots and facilitate with passing, but if the center isn't going to anchor the defense, then there's not really much difference between a 4 and a 5.

There seem to be two prototypical types of centers--either an elite rim protector and rim runner like Rudy Gobert, Hassan Whiteside and Tyson Chandler (from a few years ago), or a do-it-all, highly-skilled center like Marc Gasol or Joel Embiid.

I wouldn't say the position is dead. A team with an elite defensive center or do-it-all center has an advantage. There are only a handful of bigs that meet that description. Another issue is that the game has sped up, both in terms of pushing the ball up the floor and in terms of defensive rotations on a more spaced floor. So some of the old school bigs have a hard time with the speed of the game, and that includes guys like Demarcus Cousins and Jahlil Okafor.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

lmfao, the center position isnt close to dead. I'd argue it's as strong as it's been in a while

The position that is dead is 3rd and 4th string centers. Teams may still have a 3rd string center, but he is hardly ever going to play unless injury. I'm not sure anyone has a 4th string center anymore.

And by that I mean, for example, Utah's centers are Gobert/Udoh/Bradley. Those are the 3 guys who only play one position (center).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The primary role of a center these days is to protect the rim and rebound. Teams still need a defensive anchor. On offense, it's nice if the center can also make some shots and facilitate with passing, but if the center isn't going to anchor the defense, then there's not really much difference between a 4 and a 5.

There seem to be two prototypical types of centers--either an elite rim protector and rim runner like Rudy Gobert, Hassan Whiteside and Tyson Chandler (from a few years ago), or a do-it-all, highly-skilled center like Marc Gasol or Joel Embiid.

I wouldn't say the position is dead. A team with an elite defensive center or do-it-all center has an advantage. There are only a handful of bigs that meet that description. Another issue is that the game has sped up, both in terms of pushing the ball up the floor and in terms of defensive rotations on a more spaced floor. So some of the old school bigs have a hard time with the speed of the game, and that includes guys like Demarcus Cousins and Jahlil Okafor.

There's a good amount in the league right now.

No order:
1. Gobert
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. Davis
5. Cousins
6. Adams
7. Aldridge
8. Towns
9. Horford
10. Jordan
11. Drummond
12. Porzingis
Capela

I'd say that's a really strong top 13 group for a position, then there is another group of young guys who have potential:

13. Bagley
14. Bamba
15. Turner
16. Ayton
17. Jackson Jr
18. Carter Jr
19. Allen
20. Adebayo

Then there is some starter level and/or past their prime vets who are good enough to be full time starters if needed

21. Nurkic
22. M Gasol
23. Howard
24. Valaciunas
25. Whiteside

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And for the most part, the best teams have the best centers. Golden State is the exception, but they have an insane amount of talent everywhere else, but even then, centers have always played a key role in their teams (Bogut/Zaza/McGee).

 

[Zombie]

lmfao, the center position isnt close to dead. I'd argue it's as strong as it's been in a while

The position that is dead is 3rd and 4th string centers. Teams may still have a 3rd string center, but he is hardly ever going to play unless injury. I'm not sure anyone has a 4th string center anymore.

And by that I mean, for example, Utah's centers are Gobert/Udoh/Bradley. Those are the 3 guys who only play one position (center).

This. I wonder if people are just mixing up the death of the post game with the death of the center position.

 

[candrew]

I think the older fan's perception of the what a center does is dying - but certainly not the position.

The back to the basket/post-up/lane clogger on offense is not such a valued commodity anymore.

BTW - I predicted this 20 years ago - I'll see if I can find the original post.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

No order:
1. Gobert
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. Davis
5. Cousins
6. Adams
7. Aldridge
8. Towns
9. Horford
10. Jordan
11. Drummond
12. Porzingis

13. Bagley
14. Bamba
15. Turner
16. Ayton
17. Jackson Jr
18. Carter Jr
19. Allen
20. Adebayo

21. Nurkic
22. M Gasol
23. Howard
24. Valaciunas
25. Whiteside

Yes, there is talent at the center position, but how many of those players move the needle and affect outcome for winning basketball. You your self have been very critical of many of these centers.

How many of these centers are talented but are not built for this new nba? Whiteside couldn’t even get minutes in the playoffs where the opponent had Embiid. How often do you see teams play GS and the center that usually plays starter minutes gets like 10-15 minutes because they are so ineffective vs the style. Then there are guys like Jokic, talented offensive player but can’t help a talented laden Nuggets team make the playoffs, in the 90’s they could’ve hid his defensive deficiencys, but not now. Towns also fits in that category. In the end there are only a few centers you listed that are actual difference makers for their teams.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yes, there is talent at the center position, but how many of those players move the needle and affect outcome for winning basketball. You your self have been very critical of many of these centers.

How many of these centers are talented but are not built for this new nba? Whiteside couldn’t even get minutes in the playoffs where the opponent had Embiid. How often do you see teams play GS and the center that usually plays starter minutes gets like 10-15 minutes because they are so ineffective vs the style. Then there are guys like Jokic, talented offensive player but can’t help a talented laden Nuggets team make the playoffs, in the 90’s they could’ve hid his defensive deficiencys, but not now. Towns also fits in that category. In the end there are only a few centers you listed that are actual difference makers for their teams.

Are you trying to say Jokic and Towns have no affect on winning?

 

[JGolds]

There's a good amount in the league right now.

No order:
1. Gobert
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. Davis
5. Cousins
6. Adams
7. Aldridge
8. Towns
9. Horford
10. Jordan
11. Drummond
12. Porzingis

I'd say that's a really strong top 12 group for a position, then there is another group of young guys who have potential:

13. Bagley
14. Bamba
15. Turner
16. Ayton
17. Jackson Jr
18. Carter Jr
19. Allen
20. Adebayo

Then there is some starter level and/or past their prime vets who are good enough to be full time starters if needed

21. Nurkic
22. M Gasol
23. Howard
24. Valaciunas
25. Whiteside

I think you can include Capela on this list too.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

The center position is pretty close to dead. The game has changed so much just in the last 5-7 years. There aren’t as many good centers today because most aren’t built to defend in today’s NBA with all the floor spacing and switching. Can you imagine Mark Eaton trying to guard Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook? In today’s nba we would think of him as a Matadore type defender. If you put Rudy in the 90’s he probably averages an ungodly amount of blocks. Centers today have to be able to guard in space, as there is very little postup offense, and guys like Eaton can’t do that.

This is what makes Gobert special. Few centers have the combination of length and speed that Gobert has, giving him the ability to guard wings on the perimeter and in space while also being able to guard in the post as well. Very few centers are able to do all three. This is why the center position is just about dead, because few bigs can guard and be affective at all three levels

1. Guard smaller players on the perimeter
2. Guard in space
3. Guard in the post.

Right off the top of my head, I can only think of two true 7-0 guys that can do all three, Rudy and the Brow. If I cared to think about it some more I might come up with maybe 1 or 2 others.

Few centers can meet all of the demands of todays game. Eaton in today’s game would be a disaster in today’s NBA because he was stuck in one spot due to his lack of athleticism and mobility.

Am I wrong?

The center position is pretty close to dead. The game has changed so much just in the last 5-7 years. There aren’t as many good centers today because most aren’t built to defend in today’s NBA with all the floor spacing and switching. Can you imagine Mark Eaton trying to guard Steph Curry or Russell Westbrook? In today’s nba we would think of him as a Matadore type defender. If you put Rudy in the 90’s he probably averages an ungodly amount of blocks. Centers today have to be able to guard in space, as there is very little postup offense, and guys like Eaton can’t do that.

This is what makes Gobert special. Few centers have the combination of length and speed that Gobert has, giving him the ability to guard wings on the perimeter and in space while also being able to guard in the post as well. Very few centers are able to do all three. This is why the center position is just about dead, because few bigs can guard and be affective at all three levels

1. Guard smaller players on the perimeter
2. Guard in space
3. Guard in the post.

Right off the top of my head, I can only think of two true 7-0 guys that can do all three, Rudy and the Brow. If I cared to think about it some more I might come up with maybe 1 or 2 others.

Few centers can meet all of the demands of todays game. Eaton in today’s game would be a disaster in today’s NBA because he was stuck in one spot due to his lack of athleticism and mobility.

Am I wrong?

Where should I start with this idiocy?

1. NBA always has and always will adjust to majority playing style trying to gain an advantage. For example, we are already seeing teams move into the vacated midrange space. See Hou vs UTA.

2. It isn't about defending them, it's about forcing them to defend you. Forcing your will onto opponents wins in the NBA.

3. enough stupid for now, I'm not ready the rest of your sure-to-be nonsense.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think you can include Capela on this list too.

Meant to put him in there. Nice catch.

 

[kabenac]

I think about all the centers young Shaq dealt with - Olajuwon, Robinson, Willis, Ewing, Mutombo, Divac, Mourning and wonder the damage he'd do to present-day centers....

 

[LoPo]

The Center position was on the decline, but the 2017-18 season and the 2018 draft revitalized it. The emergence of Embiid, Gobert, Jokic and Capella being a major force along with high draft pick bigs, the position is strong again.