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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Crazy thing about the Warriors collapse is that the supporting cast is actually quite good. Lots of good young players, and guys like Saric and Looney still playing well. It’s their core that has fallen off. Steph is still great, but lost a step and can’t give defensive effort on a night to night basis. Klay is inconsistent, but wholly average. Wiggins doesn’t want to play basketball anymore, and Draymond obviously not there.

I cannot believe the Warriors had so many prized pics with a championship roster and ended up like this. They simultaneously wasted the remaining prime years of their hall of famers while also sabotaging the development of their young guys.
 
KqWIN said:
Crazy thing about the Warriors collapse is that the supporting cast is actually quite good. Lots of good young players, and guys like Saric and Looney still playing well. It’s their core that has fallen off. Steph is still great, but lost a step and can’t give defensive effort on a night to night basis. Klay is inconsistent, but wholly average. Wiggins doesn’t want to play basketball anymore, and Draymond obviously not there.

I cannot believe the Warriors had so many prized pics with a championship roster and ended up like this. They simultaneously wasted the remaining prime years of their hall of famers while also sabotaging the development of their young guys.
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We should steal a 1st rd pick from the Warriors. They are going to fall fast and hard.
 
KqWIN said:
Crazy thing about the Warriors collapse is that the supporting cast is actually quite good. Lots of good young players, and guys like Saric and Looney still playing well. It’s their core that has fallen off. Steph is still great, but lost a step and can’t give defensive effort on a night to night basis. Klay is inconsistent, but wholly average. Wiggins doesn’t want to play basketball anymore, and Draymond obviously not there.

I cannot believe the Warriors had so many prized pics with a championship roster and ended up like this. They simultaneously wasted the remaining prime years of their hall of famers while also sabotaging the development of their young guys.
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They won a championship just a year and a half ago, so "wasting remaining prime years" is more than a bit harsh.
 
Also one interesting thing to discuss is that why isnt Wemby impacting winning? I mean he produces mind-boggling highlights on a nightly basis, but for some reason the Spurs cannot close games and are on pace to win 11 games less than they did last year.

Spurs are one of the worst clutch teams in the league, with 3 wins in 17 clutch games. Their clutch 3P% is the 3rd worst (18.7%) and their clutch FT% ranks 22nd at 74.5%. Media keeps putting blame on Sochan and the other guys, but here are some interesting facts:
  • Sochan (the most common scapegoat) shoots 62.5% from the field in the clutch and 100% from FT. He has only tried 2 clutch three pointers in 16 games and missed both.
  • Wemby shoots 52.4% from the field but is 2nd in the team in clutch 3PA with a poor 16.7% success rate and 1st in clutch FTA with a poor 68.8% success rate.
  • Keldon Johnson is the worst though, as his clutch splits are 29/11/78, and he leads the team in clutch 3PA and is pretty much tied with Wemby and Branham with team lead in clutch FGA (albeit, Branham has played in just 4 clutch games and is shooting 60% from the field and 100% from 3P with 0 FTA).
I have watched their games some, but not enough to pinpoint systematic failures. It feels more like they havent got a guy who can win them those closely contested games, and they just seem to either wither away in the final minutes or just cannot get the 1 bucket/stop when they need it the most. Wemby has the tools be that guy, but so far he hasnt shown it.

So the question is, are there some intangibles missing? I mean he is projected as a future HoF type of prospect, and in comparison to actual HoF guys his rookie year has to be the worst in terms of his impact to team success.
 
HermanG said:
Also one interesting thing to discuss is that why isnt Wemby impacting winning? I mean he produces mind-boggling highlights on a nightly basis, but for some reason the Spurs cannot close games and are on pace to win 11 games less than they did last year.

Spurs are one of the worst clutch teams in the league, with 3 wins in 17 clutch games. Their clutch 3P% is the 3rd worst (18.7%) and their clutch FT% ranks 22nd at 74.5%. Media keeps putting blame on Sochan and the other guys, but here are some interesting facts:
  • Sochan (the most common scapegoat) shoots 62.5% from the field in the clutch and 100% from FT. He has only tried 2 clutch three pointers in 16 games and missed both.
  • Wemby shoots 52.4% from the field but is 2nd in the team in clutch 3PA with a poor 16.7% success rate and 1st in clutch FTA with a poor 68.8% success rate.
  • Keldon Johnson is the worst though, as his clutch splits are 29/11/78, and he leads the team in clutch 3PA and is pretty much tied with Wemby and Branham with team lead in clutch FGA (albeit, Branham has played in just 4 clutch games and is shooting 60% from the field and 100% from 3P with 0 FTA).
I have watched their games some, but not enough to pinpoint systematic failures. It feels more like they havent got a guy who can win them those closely contested games, and they just seem to either wither away in the final minutes or just cannot get the 1 bucket/stop when they need it the most. Wemby has the tools be that guy, but so far he hasnt shown it.

So the question is, are there some intangibles missing? I mean he is projected as a future HoF type of prospect, and in comparison to actual HoF guys his rookie year has to be the worst in terms of his impact to team success.
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Wemby is a center in this league and that's where things are already heading. The more he plays in the high post and functions as a hub, the better the Spurs are going to be. His passing is still his best skill IMO, right on par with his rim protection. He needs to eliminate the off-the-dribble 3's and aimless ball pounding from his game almost completely. Those do not add value for his team in the NBA.

You need a team where everyone is on the same page for that kind of system to work, though. Guys need to buy in and accept the fact that the ball should always go through Wembanyama and everyone needs to move.

The Spurs are still basically last year's broken group, with Wemby added to the mix to complicate things even more. There's guys who are playing for their careers, afraid of getting replaced, guys with egos who probably got a bit too used to being top options last year, and so on. You need to build a very specific group around Wemby, he's not a plug and play guy.

IMO they should get rid of Johnson ASAP. Sochan seems like a guy who can adapt to pretty much any type of system, so he's definitely a keeper. So is Collins.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Wemby is a center in this league and that's where things are already heading. The more he plays in the high post and functions as a hub, the better the Spurs are going to be. His passing is still his best skill IMO, right on par with his rim protection. He needs to eliminate the off-the-dribble 3's and aimless ball pounding from his game almost completely. Those do not add value for his team in the NBA.

You need a team where everyone is on the same page for that kind of system to work, though. Guys need to buy in and accept the fact that the ball should always go through Wembanyama and everyone needs to move.

The Spurs are still basically last year's broken group, with Wemby added to the mix to complicate things even more. There's guys who are playing for their careers, afraid of getting replaced, guys with egos who probably got a bit too used to being top options last year, and so on. You need to build a very specific group around Wemby, he's not a plug and play guy.

IMO they should get rid of Johnson ASAP. Sochan seems like a guy who can adapt to pretty much any type of system, so he's definitely a keeper. So is Collins.
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I think of Washington as a more broken team as they havent even been in games for the most parts (only 12 clutch games, vs Spurs 17), yet they still have 1 more win than the Spurs (maybe its just the leastern conference effect?). The broken team surely applies and causes them to get hammered way too often, but in games where they hang in and seem to be matching up, they are almost as miserable in closing those games as the Pistons (3-14 vs 2-15).

First 5 games of this season they beat Suns twice (one of them being a clutch game), and beat Rockets in OT. Ever since those games they have been 1-13 in getting Ws in games that were withing 5 points with less than 5 minutes left.
 
HermanG said:
Also one interesting thing to discuss is that why isnt Wemby impacting winning? I mean he produces mind-boggling highlights on a nightly basis, but for some reason the Spurs cannot close games and are on pace to win 11 games less than they did last year.

Spurs are one of the worst clutch teams in the league, with 3 wins in 17 clutch games. Their clutch 3P% is the 3rd worst (18.7%) and their clutch FT% ranks 22nd at 74.5%. Media keeps putting blame on Sochan and the other guys, but here are some interesting facts:
  • Sochan (the most common scapegoat) shoots 62.5% from the field in the clutch and 100% from FT. He has only tried 2 clutch three pointers in 16 games and missed both.
  • Wemby shoots 52.4% from the field but is 2nd in the team in clutch 3PA with a poor 16.7% success rate and 1st in clutch FTA with a poor 68.8% success rate.
  • Keldon Johnson is the worst though, as his clutch splits are 29/11/78, and he leads the team in clutch 3PA and is pretty much tied with Wemby and Branham with team lead in clutch FGA (albeit, Branham has played in just 4 clutch games and is shooting 60% from the field and 100% from 3P with 0 FTA).
I have watched their games some, but not enough to pinpoint systematic failures. It feels more like they havent got a guy who can win them those closely contested games, and they just seem to either wither away in the final minutes or just cannot get the 1 bucket/stop when they need it the most. Wemby has the tools be that guy, but so far he hasnt shown it.

So the question is, are there some intangibles missing? I mean he is projected as a future HoF type of prospect, and in comparison to actual HoF guys his rookie year has to be the worst in terms of his impact to team success.
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They could be tanking again. They did this before and called it unintentional tanking. Pop knows this very well he signed a 5 year extension. He will be coaching til he’s 79 years old.
 
SA knows what they are doing. I'm sure they didn't mean to lose this much but that team is slow playing Wemby's highest and best use while also experimenting with weird **** and on top they really don't have the KO type vets that will help you win a few games you shouldn't. Its a full-scale tank job.
 
KqWIN said:
Watching this Warriors-Raptors game. RJ and Quickley are DESTROYING the Warriors.
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Yeah, the Warriors looked pretty lifeless in that game. And it was their home game. Curry had 0/9 from 3-point line and 14.3FG%. The Raptors, on the other hand, looked energized with Quickly and Barrett on board.
 
Agent#00 said:
They could be tanking again. They did this before and called it unintentional tanking. Pop knows this very well he signed a 5 year extension. He will be coaching til he’s 79 years old.
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How do tank so that you come close in games but end up losing at the final 5 minutes? Also how do you tank worse than last year after rolling with much of the same guys and adding a guy like Wemby?

The best centers of all time added dozens of wins as a rookie. Moses Malone and Patrick Ewing are the only exceptions but Ewing missed 32 games causing his team to go 5-27 (18-32 with him) and still came just 1 win short, while Malone went to the worst situation imaginable (near bankrupt Utah Stars, who afforded to retain only 1 player from their 51 win team and still got 38 with Malone).

Shaq added 20, Hakeem added 19, Kareem added 28, Robinson added 35, Wilt (original freak of nature) added 10. Last center #1 to turn out as a HoF caliber guy (AD) added 6 wins despite being knicked every two weeks (they went 23-41 with AD, and 4-14 without him).

Wemby on pace to end up subtracting 11. Maybe its just that Pops doesnt want him to play big, or then its his own mindset that he has to become a perimeter player.
 
HermanG said:
How do tank so that you come close in games but end up losing at the final 5 minutes? Also how do you tank worse than last year after rolling with much of the same guys and adding a guy like Wemby?

The best centers of all time added dozens of wins as a rookie. Moses Malone and Patrick Ewing are the only exceptions but Ewing missed 32 games causing his team to go 5-27 (18-32 with him) and still came just 1 win short, while Malone went to the worst situation imaginable (near bankrupt Utah Stars, who afforded to retain only 1 player from their 51 win team and still got 38 with Malone).

Shaq added 20, Hakeem added 19, Kareem added 28, Robinson added 35, Wilt (original freak of nature) added 10. Last center #1 to turn out as a HoF caliber guy (AD) added 6 wins despite being knicked every two weeks (they went 23-41 with AD, and 4-14 without him).

Wemby on pace to end up subtracting 11. Maybe its just that Pops doesnt want him to play big, or then its his own mindset that he has to become a perimeter player.
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Wemby is fine... lets see where he is in 2 years when he fills out a bit. Those guys played in different eras and were older when they came into the league. SA is tanking... they punted on their cap space this summer instead of adding talent. They are experimenting with their young players. They don't care about winning this year. They will add two lotto talents this summer and reassess. They are playing the long game.
 
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