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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

Some people believe willingly, some insist on objective information.

I wonder why Biden started his "diplomacy": the first days of his term with very vulgar descriptions of Putin, then approved the gas pipeline Trump had put under sanctions, and why today Putin's representatives are in Iran taking our place in the negotiations while his spokespeople say Russia's interests there are also ours.

I grew up seeing Pravda as anything but truth, and when studying Russian Lit of the 20th Century I found "Socialist Realism" basically crap warmed over. There is no objective reporting that really gets to the important questions. Everybody is lying

People have a right to know. That's what Freedom of the Press really means. Nobody censoring. People should have the right to objective reporting. Independent journalists are not allowed in Ukraine any more than in Russia. Zelensky has outlawed a majority of the people's political parties on ground he holds.

Still, some objective reporting is getting out, but our media censors it. Worldwide

, the press has gone silent except for declared partisans.

You have to remember Romney in 2012 disagreeing with Obama in the debatge, saying Russia was an issue. Now our RINOs and Dems are really trying to link Putin to Trump. Mark Levin and Sean Hannity, literally Trump "insiders" have done their best distance us from Putin. You can't even match that rhetoric in thses threads.

I understand Russia actually has some common ground with America because of old conflicts with Britain. Russia gave us Alaska in hopes it wouldn't fall into Canadian hands. I don't want to see stupid wars drummed up because of "Leadership" gone amok.

In today's CFR magazine, there is an article on leadership and how it has affected the Ukraine/Russia war.

In my opinion, there is a lot of evidence that this is a staged war, or deliberately provoked. I think Putin should not have gone into Ukraine, but nobody here is telling us what our diplomats have done, or what we have done. Putin was literally told, by Biden, that he could have a piece of Ukraine. But in return, the rest of Ukraine will become one of the heaviest armed camps in the world, just a few hundred miles from Moscow. This is really crazy.

And still we have little war mongers in here willing to raise the rhetorical heat.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine have institutional societies that can sustain democracy, it's foolish to believe UJkraine will be a "free" country even as much as Russia. The difference might be Zelensky is more "woke", but Russia is still about 40% communist.

We are the ones being hurt the most economically by this, other than the rubble landscaped I mean. Our liberty is on the line. We lose no matter who "wins".
 
My little online survey of news today, without actually getting the app to read RT Moscow, yielded a few bits, I think, of reasoned and objective information. First, the talks in Turkey, described in Moscow as unproductive, reveal thatg Moscow has eased up on Kiev by repositioning its forces, as a condition of the talks. Not Russia saying that. Ukraine appears to be offering an acceptance of Russia's primary demand that it will not join NATO. Ukraine is also considering, in connection with that, accepting status as non-military meaning not hosting or accepting arms depots or military bases, if the US/UK/Canada/Israel/Turkey, and some other countires agree to provide protection in case of invasion or aggression. This would involve NATO countries in effect. A sort of mini-NATO. Russia should negotiate against this unless it specifically excludes Article 5 actions under NATO, thus limiting the exposure on the west flank to Ukraine. The deal on the table also includes no recognition for Russia over Crimea and the Donbas, in whole or in part, without removal of forces, for 15 years while negotiations go forward. This should also be negotiated against by Russia. The 2014 "settlement" required the same negotiations, and Zelensky refused to negotiate while building his forces in the area, and committed war crimes including torture of separatists and Russians. The leader of the Ukrainian Donbas forces was known and proven to be an outright NAZI affilite and leader of the Azov battalion.

Whatever Russia agrees to will be the classic "peace in exchange for time to prepare for war" unless Zelensky changes his internal governance and re-structures his military to exclude the NAZI elements. He must recognize opposition political parties, Putin, on the other side, has not taken that extreme against his internal opposition, which are largely the old communist party ideologues and wealthy former USSR money men.

But overall, I am hopeful about the negotiations. Some are saying Putin is admitting military defeat, and that might be true enough. But he has not admitted diplomatic or principled defeat. His purpose was possibly to simply overturn the Zelensky government, which was itself the result of a non-democratic coup in 2014 by the NAZI ideologues financed by western money. But Putin did not outright claim that. He hoped to have more favorable support from pro-Russian political parties, and an ostensibly independent Ukraine with a negotiated settlement that Ukraine would not join NATO or the EU, and would cooperate favorably in economic arenas.

Crimea and the Donbas were part of Russia until 1956 when Khrushchev, for internal political reasons, re-drew the map. It is actually a concession by Putin to settle for Luhansk and Donetsk independence with ostensibly local governance.. Crimea was a military victory by Russia against the former occupiers, the Turks.

There is “no sign of a breakthrough” yet in peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, a Kremlin spokesperson has said. Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Wednesday that Moscow welcomed Kyiv’s decision to set out its demands in writing, but warned there was a “long period of work ahead”.

It came after Ukraine negotiators, at the talks in Istanbul, Turkey, said on Tuesday that they proposed adopting neutral status for security guarantees, meaning Ukraine would not join military alliances or host military bases.

 
Trump just loves America! It's not just about him, he sacrifices himself and his own interests for his love of his country.

You're extra stupid
I clicked on your spoiler and now I feel bad. :(
 
I clicked on your spoiler and now I feel bad. :(
I didn't look at it, because nobody really believes that anyway. It's like the "tin foil hat" meme. Maybe a MAGA hat is roughly equivalent in some eyes, but the fundamental frlaw in the theory is that even if you want MAGA, neither Trump nor any other politcian can do the job. What ever made America great, or good, had nothing to do with the Government.

What most people, even Trump supporters, really want is less stupid governance, not more.

People who hold their noses and vote for Trump are mostly people who just don't want the Agenda being laid out by our unaccountable political leadership and their lying lapdog "authorities" of every kind and color. Just don't go there, you'll get the votes, legally.
 
America has been as great the last 20 years as it has ever been. Greater even.
 
Trending downward the last two years, mostly pandemic driven. Hopefully it trends back up again.
Nah, not in my humble opinion. We handled 2016-2020 just fine and we're handling this medical pandemic just as well. It's hard to keep a great country down. Name any decade and I could tell you what kind of horrible **** was going on in the U.S.. If we actually had a decade where we weren't doing horrible things then that will be the decade that the U.S. is truly great. Let's keep our fingers crossed starting in 2023. More than just hopes and dreams let's all try to be part of that era.
 
Nah, not in my humble opinion. We handled 2016-2020 just fine and we're handling this medical pandemic just as well. It's hard to keep a great country down. Name any decade and I could tell you what kind of horrible **** was going on in the U.S.. If we actually had a decade where we weren't doing horrible things then that will be the decade that the U.S. is truly great. Let's keep our fingers crossed starting in 2023. More than just hopes and dreams let's all try to be part of that era.
There are studies on this, and after a long trend upward, we are definitely trending down. Obesity, social separation, mass shooting among other factors are responsible for part of the trend, and the pandemic pushed it down further. We are still high compared to even 2017, but the trend is headed down (and with globalization and generally, it would be unreasonable to expect a neverending upward trend).
 
There are studies on this, and after a long trend upward, we are definitely trending down. Obesity, social separation, mass shooting among other factors are responsible for part of the trend, and the pandemic pushed it down further. We are still high compared to even 2017, but the trend is headed down (and with globalization and generally, it would be unreasonable to expect a neverending upward trend).
That mass shootings are factored in when they directly affect roughly the same number of people who become millionaires from lottery winnings is suspect.
 
That mass shootings are factored in when they directly affect roughly the same number of people who become millionaires from lottery winnings is suspect.
I don't know much about lottery winning numbers, but I'd gues it's maybe 10 in a year.

Considering the way mass shootings are often covered, it would loom larger in the public mind than the number of auto deaths on highways.

Of course we can all project our values and priorities and select our information from various offerings differing on the scale of orders of magnitud3e, and we can be happy if we want to be.

I think your optimism here reflects the advancement of values and agendas you subscribe to, which many people don't share.

My own value system would be an inverse relationship between government spending and "greatness".
 
Really interesting article by Anne Applebaum

I didn't want to actually subscribe to The Atlantic, so I didn't read this article, which I admit has a very true title.+

I assume that this article defines "true democracy" as the junta comprised by globalist agenda wonks like our mainstream media, the DINO and RINO fake opposition parties the good old USA, and our own..... homegrown and Chinese..... megabuck interests who favor the woke agenda and authoriatative management of the so called "free" public they rule.

Quite a lot of hutspa in all that, I'd say.

Putin might be no better, but for sure Zelensky and NATO are not either.
 
It appears the Ukrainians have "won" back a part of their country apparently without having to fire a shot.


Ukrainian scientists arrived back in the area to evaluate the damage done during the Russian occupation to find the Russians had occupied parts of Chernobyl that shouldn't have been occupied.


...and now it is more clear what caused the Russian army to reconsider the value of having their soldiers control this famous landmark.

 
Russia apparently doesn't even have air superiority in their own country. Or spotters.

They are the most incompetent military of all time, probably.

You would think after a bunch of kids kicked your *** in Red Dawn you'd make some adjustments. Still the same old strategy. Putin must have the Quin Snyder playbook.
 
Russia apparently doesn't even have air superiority in their own country. Or spotters.

They are the most incompetent military of all time, probably.

I love how Ukraine striking a legitimate military target during a war for their survival causes awkwardness in talks about a war Russia started in which they have killed thousands of innocent civilians. Yeah, so awkward.
 
Russia apparently doesn't even have air superiority in their own country. Or spotters.

They are the most incompetent military of all time, probably.

Until they decide to let the nukes fly.
 
I love how Ukraine striking a legitimate military target during a war for their survival causes awkwardness in talks about a war Russia started in which they have killed thousands of innocent civilians. Yeah, so awkward.
Yep, social media age, everything gets immediate spin. At least back in the day they would have to drop leaflets to claim foul play and remind everyone that the Ukrainians are really all child molesters and godless heathens.
 


But didn’t they kinda deserve this cuz NATO, the West, Putin isn’t that bad or something?

Just a reminder, Donald still praises this guy and Tucker just two months ago was cheering for him.







Remember who the “real bad guys” are. Did Putin ever let trans kids play sports? So why should we cheer against him?

 
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