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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

Your posts all make you sound like a chest thumping neo-con. Are you? Did you vote for Biden? I don't want to take your perspective the wrong way here.
Eat my ***. You aren't saying anything interesting or thought provoking or even ****ing relevant.

Why did Trump usher in the MTGs and Boeberts and Jim Jordans and Mike ****ing traitor Flynn, and why as long as they stroke his ego does he support them?

Why did he commit valid reasons for impeachment multiple times?

If there's an alternative to neo-cons and this is the lot that represents that alternative then I'll happily keep the neo-cons that don't threaten TRUTHFUL history regarding race in the U.S., who don't spread dangerous and hateful ideology about the LGBTQ community, who don't support misogynistic, anti-semitic and racist organizations. Who don't fawn over Putin as a great and powerful national leader.

This is a circus of disgusting idiots. If that's the best alternative to neo-cons then there is no alternative to neo-cons because we need actual ****ing adults to run this country. I DGAF about your definition of neo-con either, so you can toss that around like Trump supporters toss around "socialist" and "communist" and "antifa" and "BLM" interchangeably and it'll mean just as much to me.
 
Let me go a little further.

Trump the actual person doesn't know **** about neo-cons, or liberals, or socialism, or Antifa, or much of anything.

If you took Trump the idiotic man child and put him in a room with a team of people tasked with capturing his thoughts and told him to articulate his political ideology you'd come out months later with no ****ing clue what he believed in. He is dependent on people like you to put reasons behind his actions, because I ****ing guarantee you no thought process along the lines of "we need to stop the neo-cons" or anything coherent at all went through his ****ing head. babe has been really good at creating the God he wants to believe in when it comes to Trump. He takes random thoughtless acts by Trump and forms it into something he agrees with and can backfill some sort of meaning into. Trump himself is oblivious to all this high minded apologetics that retroactively gives meaning to his bumbling idiotic nonsense.

People who actively support LGBTQ genocide get MTG to show up at their events and since MTG sniffs Trump farts and says they are really great Trump supports her, regardless of the despicable very anti-American company she keeps. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about you, he doesn't care about the United States of America (beyond how it can directly benefit him) and he doesn't care about ideas.

That's who you've rode in here to be the champion of? Look in a ****ing mirror. Ask some hard questions about the actual reality you exist in vs this fantasy you and many others have created and try hard to exist in the real ****ing world again. I don't think you can, I don't think you want to, I don't think you're even worth having in the real world anymore. I don't want you back. You can die in that fantasy you have cuddled up into with other disgusting people. Stay there! Die there!
 
Get over Trump hurting your feelings already. That has nothing to do with foreign policy. He's an *******. We get it. You have 1,0000 posts telling us this. Has nothing to do with foreign policy.

Come to think of it, were you the poster who didn't know what the neo-cons are, or u the one mocking my warnings about electing another one? Maybe try learning from your extensive track record of being dead wrong before mocking again? You are as clueless as they come.
He didn't hurt my feelings. He was just an annoying douche and thats why he lost the election. You want him to be president then you should want him to be less of a douche just like me. I dont understand why you think him being a douche is cool and something to defend. Maybe it says something about you.
 
Let me go a little further.

Trump the actual person doesn't know **** about neo-cons, or liberals, or socialism, or Antifa, or much of anything.

If you took Trump the idiotic man child and put him in a room with a team of people tasked with capturing his thoughts and told him to articulate his political ideology you'd come out months later with no ****ing clue what he believed in. He is dependent on people like you to put reasons behind his actions, because I ****ing guarantee you no thought process along the lines of "we need to stop the neo-cons" or anything coherent at all went through his ****ing head. babe has been really good at creating the God he wants to believe in when it comes to Trump. He takes random thoughtless acts by Trump and forms it into something he agrees with and can backfill some sort of meaning into. Trump himself is oblivious to all this high minded apologetics that retroactively gives meaning to his bumbling idiotic nonsense.

People who actively support LGBTQ genocide get MTG to show up at their events and since MTG sniffs Trump farts and says they are really great Trump supports her, regardless of the despicable very anti-American company she keeps. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about you, he doesn't care about the United States of America (beyond how it can directly benefit him) and he doesn't care about ideas.

That's who you've rode in here to be the champion of? Look in a ****ing mirror. Ask some hard questions about the actual reality you exist in vs this fantasy you and many others have created and try hard to exist in the real ****ing world again. I don't think you can, I don't think you want to, I don't think you're even worth having in the real world anymore. I don't want you back. You can die in that fantasy you have cuddled up into with other disgusting people. Stay there! Die there!
That's quite the nonsensical rant. Slow clap. I'd rather have a president who hurts my feelings and so pretend he has hurt my people than war in Ukraine.

Enough slumming it for me. Maybe something will be worth my while to read next go round.
 
He didn't hurt my feelings. He was just an annoying douche and thats why he lost the election. You want him to be president then you should want him to be less of a douche just like me. I dont understand why you think him being a douche is cool and something to defend. Maybe it says something about you.
This war sucks. It did not happen under Trump. Creating whatever beautiful people fantasy about Trump won't change the fact.
 
In my opinion, the reason Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump's term is because Trump was already fulfilling Putin's wishes by trying to weaken NATO. Trump is now claiming that NATO is great because of him, but I haven't forgotten how he wanted to pull us out of NATO, and how he weakened our alliances with other NATO countries. Putin loved it. Trump tries to rewrite history, but it doesn't work because his words and actions are recorded.

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This war sucks. It did not happen under Trump. Creating whatever beautiful people fantasy about Trump won't change the fact.
I hope you realize that this war is between 2 non US countries.
I guess biden could have maybe prevented this war from happening by calling up putin and asking him what he would like the US to do for him. Maybe. I mean no one knows. Its literally impossible to know if Russia would be invading ukraine if trump were president. The fact that you are a huge fanboy who thinks your orange god has magical powers is pretty pathetic.
 
I hope you realize that this war is between 2 non US countries.
I guess biden could have maybe prevented this war from happening by calling up putin and asking him what he would like the US to do for him. Maybe. I mean no one knows. Its literally impossible to know if Russia would be invading ukraine if trump were president. The fact that you are a huge fanboy who thinks your orange god has magical powers is pretty pathetic.
Maybe. I don't blame Biden alone (or much at all really under his tenure as president, but the U.S. and NATO pushed Russia to do this. This was decades in the making.

Does anyone recally everything going on in Ukraine in the past? It seems like the media is ignoring it.

Putin warned Bush in 2004 that if Ukraine joined NATO, there would be no Ukraine.

The U.S (through public and private funds) has poured millions to influence Ukraine to become a western democracy.

There is confirmed leaked data that the US influenced the coup/ouster of Ukraine's pro-Russian president in 2014 (may have happened anyway, but we influenced it), tried to influence who would be the replacement, and celebrated the successful coup (yes, there was evidently Russian influence too, but basically the former Pres backed out of a deal with the EU in exhange for a $15b agreement w Russia). Obama said they would continue to push for their entrance to NATO or the EU, despite Putin's continued warning that U.S./NATO influences on Russia's border would be a sign as a threat that would be responded to with force. Obama responded by saying we are no longer in a cold war, and there is no reason to act as such, and the U.S. will continue to push for western democracy in Ukraine. An idealistic approach, but somewhat naive if you think Russia and Putin will just stand by and let it happen.

Before this current war started, Putin again stated there would be no escalation if Ukraine agreed not to join NATO. Russia does not want Nato weapons on its border.

If Trump were still president, this likely would have still happened, as Putin has been around long enough to know U.S. interests can change every 4 years, so despite Trump's feelings on NATO, we'd still be here, and Trump would have likely escalated things to an even more dangerous level, as he lacks any tact or skills in diplomacy.

If we flip the script, and Putin spent years to influence Mexico and it's elections to be pro-communist and pro-Russia, and perhaps wanted to station pro-Russian weapons on Mexican soil, how would we respond? Most likely the way we did during the Cuban missle crisis. Threaten war unless there was an agreement to disarm.

Ukraine covers a lot of Russian border, and would leave them exposed if Ukraine joined NATO. Russians have even told Ukrainians their war is not with Ukraine, it is with the U.S. and NATO. I wish Putin was more diplomatic, but it is easy to see why he decided to attack.

I dislike Putin and hope for his quick demise, but western goverments definitely shoulder some blame.

We (along w Russia) also agreed as part of the Bangladesh Accords to protect Ukraine in exchange for nuclear disarmament. Russia essentially has said that western influence has changed Ukraine so much that it is not the same country therefore the agreement is void. Are we holding up our end of the promise?

It reminds me of the common western movie theme when a good guy comes to town and takes out a couple bad guys, but when the whole gang comes and punishes the town for retribution, the heros are gone, or retreat/are defeated. Often in the movies the hero comes back and saves the day.
 
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In my opinion, the reason Putin didn't invade Ukraine under Trump's term is because Trump was already fulfilling Putin's wishes by trying to weaken NATO. Trump is now claiming that NATO is great because of him, but I haven't forgotten how he wanted to pull us out of NATO, and how he weakened our alliances with other NATO countries. Putin loved it. Trump tries to rewrite history, but it doesn't work because his words and actions are recorded.

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His cult followers let him rewrite history…

But yeah, the rest of us who have memories longer than goldfish remember what he was doing to NATO while president.
 
Russia has, for over 30 years now, had an opposition political party. It has elections. Some dispute the validity of those elections, and some dispute Putin on about every possible issue. It has been about as "democratic" as any country on the face of the earth.

Or you think the Bush and Clinton and Obama folks aren't pretty much alike and backed by the same people. A lot of corporates have for years donated to both parties. The "Tea Party" was the only real opposition here to the Rockefeller Party. People voted in a lot of professed "Tea Party" candidates only to learn later they were just opportunistic liars who went to Washington or their State gov positions and just kept going with the crowd.

One of the things I do know from direct experience is the nature of the politics in the Philippines. Unapologetically corrupt. Ferdinand Marcos became President in the 1960s with Rockefeller cash to buy the votes. He declared Martial Law in 1972 and that lasted for years. An opposition party existed,. There was no way to buy in to real power for the opposition. Marcos was "Nationalist" Party, or more like the Republicans here. He viewed the Roman Catholic Church as one of his opponents, and promoted Christian churches like the Mormons.

Communists, Moslems, etc., along with the "Liberal" party were his opposition. Things came to a head when "Ninoy" Aquino returned to the Philippines after being a guest at the Ted Kennedy estate for a couple of years while he organized financial support in the USA. I had met him and his wife Corazon, and their uncle was one of my friends.

He was gunned down by Marcos' "Thugs" on the tarmac at Manila International Airport literally the moment he touched Philippine soil. People began to rise up in protest of Marcos, ultimately millions of people in the streets. People stood in front of tanks until the tank operators just turned away and went back to their base instead of shooting people. And, right now, his son is about to be the next President of the Philippines, again with USA Republican (Rockefeller) cash.

Saddam Hussein in Iraq got his start with Bush support, American support. Sometimes it goes bad when we install creeps in power overseas.

We did not install Putin. He decided to not be anybody's boy, and ran on Russian nationalism. His opposition there is Western-supported Communist Party people.

The post above by Gold Standard was pretty much on fact.

We were involved in the coup that overthrew the pro-Russian government in Ukraine. "We", meaning our political hacks, intend to also overthrow Putin. If, or when, we do that, we will install someone like Marcos or Hussein, and it will still go bad. It will be worse.

"Our" political class is run by people who really don't believe in any kind of human rights or democracy. They lie to us in every thing they do.

Trump, when he ran, first of all called the Clintons to tell them all about it, and then went, hat in hand, to the headquarters of the Council on Foreign Relations, seeking their endorsement. He found out, out on the campaign trail, that there was a pretty stiff breeze in his sails when he got independent and talked "America" the way a lot of folks want it to be. But in office, he left the Establishment in place even while he was butchered by "The Resistance". I don't know if he's a shill or what the hell, just to be a foil people can use politically to the advantage of our political class.

China owns a pretty big slice of our media now, and many of our significant politicians. and it pretty damn hard to get daylight between some of our politicians and the CCP. The CCP, in turn, has for decades, been in some respects, been influenced by Western interests. People like Maurice Stgrong,when he was still "The Man in China", and the Ford Foundation. So at the very least, that goes both ways. I think we may see the Russian pie divided, with China getting a big slice of Siberia. But in what ever the results, there will be huge payback for the cartels, globally. And the little people will be a lot more dependent. And the population problem will be reduced. That is the management game plan.

It has nothing to do with human rights, democracy, or freedom, or anyone having "their own country".

It's a Globalist Staged, Management operation. Gotta sell some more military stuff. Gotta get Putin the squeaky wheel. It's all about the Oil. And other stuff, and who's gonna be the King of the Hill.

Global Fascism.
 
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Maybe. I don't blame Biden alone (or much at all really under his tenure as president, but the U.S. and NATO pushed Russia to do this. This was decades in the making.

Does anyone recally everything going on in Ukraine in the past? It seems like the media is ignoring it.

Putin warned Bush in 2004 that if Ukraine joined NATO, there would be no Ukraine.

The U.S (through public and private funds) has poured millions to influence Ukraine to become a western democracy.

There is confirmed leaked data that the US influenced the coup/ouster of Ukraine's pro-Russian president in 2014 (may have happened anyway, but we influenced it), tried to influence who would be the replacement, and celebrated the successful coup (yes, there was evidently Russian influence too, but basically the former Pres backed out of a deal with the EU in exhange for a $15b agreement w Russia). Obama said they would continue to push for their entrance to NATO or the EU, despite Putin's continued warning that U.S./NATO influences on Russia's border would be a sign as a threat that would be responded to with force. Obama responded by saying we are no longer in a cold war, and there is no reason to act as such, and the U.S. will continue to push for western democracy in Ukraine. An idealistic approach, but somewhat naive if you think Russia and Putin will just stand by and let it happen.

Before this current war started, Putin again stated there would be no escalation if Ukraine agreed not to join NATO. Russia does not want Nato weapons on its border.

If Trump were still president, this likely would have still happened, as Putin has been around long enough to know U.S. interests can change every 4 years, so despite Trump's feelings on NATO, we'd still be here, and Trump would have likely escalated things to an even more dangerous level, as he lacks any tact or skills in diplomacy.

If we flip the script, and Putin spent years to influence Mexico and it's elections to be pro-communist and pro-Russia, and perhaps wanted to station pro-Russian weapons on Mexican soil, how would we respond? Most likely the way we did during the Cuban missle crisis. Threaten war unless there was an agreement to disarm.

Ukraine covers a lot of Russian border, and would leave them exposed if Ukraine joined NATO. Russians have even told Ukrainians their war is not with Ukraine, it is with the U.S. and NATO. I wish Putin was more diplomatic, but it is easy to see why he decided to attack.

I dislike Putin and hope for his quick demise, but western goverments definitely shoulder some blame.

We (along w Russia) also agreed as part of the Bangladesh Accords to protect Ukraine in exchange for nuclear disarmament. Russia essentially has said that western influence has changed Ukraine so much that it is not the same country therefore the agreement is void. Are we holding up our end of the promise?

It reminds me of the common western movie theme when a good guy comes to town and takes out a couple bad guys, but when the whole gang comes and punishes the town for retribution, the heros are gone, or retreat/are defeated. Often in the movies the hero comes back and saves the day.
So because Putin made threats telling the U.S. and NATO not to do things that we were perfectly justified to do it is our fault that Putin invaded a peaceful neighbor?
 
Maybe. I don't blame Biden alone (or much at all really under his tenure as president, but the U.S. and NATO pushed Russia to do this. This was decades in the making.

Does anyone recally everything going on in Ukraine in the past? It seems like the media is ignoring it.

Putin warned Bush in 2004 that if Ukraine joined NATO, there would be no Ukraine.

The U.S (through public and private funds) has poured millions to influence Ukraine to become a western democracy.

There is confirmed leaked data that the US influenced the coup/ouster of Ukraine's pro-Russian president in 2014 (may have happened anyway, but we influenced it), tried to influence who would be the replacement, and celebrated the successful coup (yes, there was evidently Russian influence too, but basically the former Pres backed out of a deal with the EU in exhange for a $15b agreement w Russia). Obama said they would continue to push for their entrance to NATO or the EU, despite Putin's continued warning that U.S./NATO influences on Russia's border would be a sign as a threat that would be responded to with force. Obama responded by saying we are no longer in a cold war, and there is no reason to act as such, and the U.S. will continue to push for western democracy in Ukraine. An idealistic approach, but somewhat naive if you think Russia and Putin will just stand by and let it happen.

Before this current war started, Putin again stated there would be no escalation if Ukraine agreed not to join NATO. Russia does not want Nato weapons on its border.

If Trump were still president, this likely would have still happened, as Putin has been around long enough to know U.S. interests can change every 4 years, so despite Trump's feelings on NATO, we'd still be here, and Trump would have likely escalated things to an even more dangerous level, as he lacks any tact or skills in diplomacy.

If we flip the script, and Putin spent years to influence Mexico and it's elections to be pro-communist and pro-Russia, and perhaps wanted to station pro-Russian weapons on Mexican soil, how would we respond? Most likely the way we did during the Cuban missle crisis. Threaten war unless there was an agreement to disarm.

Ukraine covers a lot of Russian border, and would leave them exposed if Ukraine joined NATO. Russians have even told Ukrainians their war is not with Ukraine, it is with the U.S. and NATO. I wish Putin was more diplomatic, but it is easy to see why he decided to attack.

I dislike Putin and hope for his quick demise, but western goverments definitely shoulder some blame.

We (along w Russia) also agreed as part of the Bangladesh Accords to protect Ukraine in exchange for nuclear disarmament. Russia essentially has said that western influence has changed Ukraine so much that it is not the same country therefore the agreement is void. Are we holding up our end of the promise?

It reminds me of the common western movie theme when a good guy comes to town and takes out a couple bad guys, but when the whole gang comes and punishes the town for retribution, the heros are gone, or retreat/are defeated. Often in the movies the hero comes back and saves the day.

Imo russian shouldnt be in charge of whether another country wants to be a part of nato. Its their choice not russias imo.
Same goes for if mexico decided to be communist.


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So because Putin made threats telling the U.S. and NATO not to do things that we were perfectly justified to do it is our fault that Putin invaded a peaceful neighbor?
When you have a superpower that consistently threatens a response to an action, and you continue with that action, you have some blame.

I didn't say we should or should not have done it, but our actions and meddling have caused the response.
 
Imo russian shouldnt be in charge of whether another country wants to be a part of nato. Its their choice not russias imo.
Same goes for if mexico decided to be communist.


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You really think we wouldn't attempt to interfere if Mexico became pro-Russian, and like NATO, wanted to stockpile weapons on the border? We didn't allow it in Cuba, to the effect of going to war until they backed down.
 
When you have a superpower that consistently threatens a response to an action, and you continue with that action, you have some blame.

I didn't say we should or should not have done it, but our actions and meddling have caused the response.
I don't agree.
 
You really think we wouldn't attempt to interfere if Mexico became pro-Russian, and like NATO, wanted to stockpile weapons on the border? We didn't allow it in Cuba, to the effect of going to war until they backed down.

I dont think we should interfere if mexico decides that they want to change their government.


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Saw a news flash tonight, saying Russia's latest offensive was taking a beating. Anyone got details?
 
I dont think we should interfere if mexico decides that they want to change their government.


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But what if that change was decided by Russia pushing lots of influence/interference to make it happen? We have seen how the U.S. responds to weapons on our doorstep. Unreasonable or not, we did it in Cuba. I don't agree with Putin, but I am not surprised, he just followed through on what he said he would do. Hell, we went to Vietnam to try and stop Communism. According to a 2020 study, Americans "are more likely to condemn foreign involvement, lose faith in democracy, and seek retaliation when a foreign power sides with the opposition, than when a foreign power aids their own party. At the same time, Americans reject military responses to electoral attacks on the United States, even when their own political party is targeted." Tomz, Michael; Weeks, Jessica L. P. (2020). "Public Opinion and Foreign Electoral Intervention". American Political Science Review. 114 (3): 856–873. doi:10.1017/S0003055420000064. ISSN 0003-0554.

Putin inferred he was fine with Ukraine becoming a western democracy, as long as they were not part of the EU and NATO, that was his line. He doesn't want NATO on his doorstep. I really don't think the U.S. would react any differently if the roles were reversed.

We went full war mode during the Cuban missile crisis until they disarmed. We are safer because our borders are not a threat.

This article does not touch on everything I mentioned above, and brings up others, definitely worth a read:

Mearsheimer has been analyzing the Ukraine situation for years, and I think his analysis is spot on.

I fully support Ukraine, and based on the Bangladesh Accords alone I think we have a duty to protect them. Even more so as we have influenced their current political climate. To say we didn't foresee this, or even contribute to the tension that lead to this war does not mesh with reality. We continue to influence countries at a political level, with differing levels of interference. The CIA provided Saddam with arms, money and political backing, which of course was a major backfire. We funded insurgents, which allegedly included Osama Bin Laden when Russia was fighting in Afghanistan. According to a 2016 study, either through covert or overt actions, the U.S. intervened in 81 foreign elections while Russia intervened in 36, which a follow up study found the interventions determined "in many cases" the identity of the winner.
  1. Levin, Dov (2018). "A Vote for Freedom? The Effects of Partisan Electoral Interventions on Regime Type". Journal of Conflict Resolution. 63 (4): 839–868. doi:10.1177/0022002718770507. S2CID 158135517.

From Putin's view, our influence in the 2014 Ukraine coup, removed a pro-Russian president for an anti-Russian president which we also had influence in getting appointed, and this interference has led to potential border issues which he has responded to. I don't agree with Putin, I don't think NATO is going to attack Putin, but this is his reasoning, which has been consistent for decades regarding how he would respond if this happened. If we had never interfered with the 2014 coup and follow-up elections, then perhaps we would have no culpability, but you when inject yourself into foreign policy to this degree, the outcome will partially rest on your shoulders.

So while Ukraine made their own decisions, they did so with our influence. As such, we owe them much more than what we are currently providing.

It is a fact that Russia and China both have a cold war mentality. If we ignore this, the results will not be pretty. President Xi has stated that the U.S. and NATO both have a cold war mentality, and believe Russia is permanently threatened by NATO, and both oppose its expansion. In a joint statement, the leaders said they opposed the "further expansion of NATO," while calling on the alliance to "abandon its ideologized Cold War approaches, respect the sovereignty, security and interests of other countries and the diversity of their civilizational, cultural and historical backgrounds, and adopt a fair and objective attitude toward the peaceful development of other countries."

Bill Perry, Clinton's Defense Secretary understood:
 
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