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This article just seemed logical to me.

GoJazz

Well-Known Member
So I am not normally a political person. In fact, I don't feel my socially liberal and fiscally conservative stance are respresented by either party. Anyways as a former Airman and with 10 years experance in the Air Force I read this article and couldn't agree more.


https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/opinion/26kristof.html?_r=1

We face wrenching budget cutting in the years ahead, but there’s one huge area of government spending that Democrats and Republicans alike have so far treated as sacrosanct.

It’s the military/security world, and it’s time to bust that taboo. A few facts:

• The United States spends nearly as much on military power as every other country in the world combined, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. It says that we spend more than six times as much as the country with the next highest budget, China.

• The United States maintains troops at more than 560 bases and other sites abroad, many of them a legacy of a world war that ended 65 years ago. Do we fear that if we pull our bases from Germany, Russia might invade?

• The intelligence community is so vast that more people have “top secret” clearance than live in Washington, D.C.

• The U.S. will spend more on the war in Afghanistan this year, adjusting for inflation, than we spent on the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Mexican-American War, the Civil War and the Spanish-American War combined.

This is the one area where elections scarcely matter. President Obama, a Democrat who symbolized new directions, requested about 6 percent more for the military this year than at the peak of the Bush administration.

“Republicans think banging the war drums wins them votes, and Democrats think if they don’t chime in, they’ll lose votes,” said Andrew Bacevich, an ex-military officer who now is a historian at Boston University. He is author of a thoughtful recent book, “Washington Rules: America’s Path to Permanent War.”

The costs of excessive reliance on military force are not just financial, of course, as Professor Bacevich knows well. His son, Andrew Jr., an Army first lieutenant, was killed in Iraq in 2007.

Let me be clear: I’m a believer in a robust military, which is essential for backing up diplomacy. But the implication is that we need a balanced tool chest of diplomatic and military tools alike. Instead, we have a billionaire military and a pauper diplomacy. The U.S. military now has more people in its marching bands than the State Department has in its foreign service — and that’s preposterous.

What’s more, if you’re carrying an armload of hammers, every problem looks like a nail. The truth is that military power often isn’t very effective at solving modern problems, like a nuclear North Korea or an Iran that is on the nuclear path. Indeed, in an age of nationalism, our military force is often counterproductive.

After the first gulf war, the United States retained bases in Saudi Arabia on the assumption that they would enhance American security. Instead, they appear to have provoked fundamentalists like Osama bin Laden into attacking the U.S. In other words, hugely expensive bases undermined American security (and we later closed them anyway). Wouldn’t our money have been better spent helping American kids get a college education?

Paradoxically, it’s often people with experience in the military who lead the way in warning against overinvestment in arms. It was President Dwight Eisenhower who gave the strongest warning: “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.” And in the Obama administration, it is Defense Secretary Robert Gates who has argued that military spending on things large and small can and should expect closer, harsher scrutiny; it is Secretary Gates who has argued most eloquently for more investment in diplomacy and development aid.

American troops in Afghanistan are among the strongest advocates of investing more in schools there because they see firsthand that education fights extremism far more effectively than bombs. And here’s the trade-off: For the cost of one American soldier in Afghanistan for one year, you could build about 20 schools.

There are a few signs of hope in the air. The Simpson-Bowles deficit commission proposes cutting money for armaments, along with other spending. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton unveiled a signature project, the quadrennial diplomacy and development review, which calls for more emphasis on aid and diplomacy in foreign policy.

“Leading through civilian power saves lives and money,” Mrs. Clinton noted, and she’s exactly right. The review is a great document, but we’ll see if it can be implemented — especially because House Republicans are proposing cuts in the State Department budget.

They should remind themselves that in the 21st century, our government can protect its citizens in many ways: financing research against disease, providing early childhood programs that reduce crime later, boosting support for community colleges, investing in diplomacy that prevents costly wars.

As we cut budgets, let’s remember that these steps would, on balance, do far more for the security of Americans than a military base in Germany.
 
Useless article

This follows the template of taking a complex concept that seems obvious and boil it down to something simple to get everybody in agreement with the end goal to make something look far more out of control than it is.

For example:

1. Most military bases still in existence globally after the cold war ARE NOT there because they believe the Russians will rebuilt and invade Europe through the Fulda Gap but because it easier when it is time to strike to fly a plane or move a soldier from Europe than from Missouri. If that were the case Eisenhower would have stage DDay from Fort Bragg NC.

2. If the military knew what the next war or conflict was going to be and in what time frame than they could prepare, train, and fight in the most cost effective way possible. If the cops knew where the next crime was going to be they wouldn't waste the gas driving around all shift.

3. Why do those who argue against military waste assume the government is going to magically effectively deploy those dollars somewhere else?

4. "for the cost of one american soldier you could build 20 schools" That perhaps is most idiotic logic one can use. The only reason you can build one school is because our military is over there. You can't do B unless you do A first. It is not either drop a bomb or build a school. Of course any soldier would rather build a school than get shot at.

American journalism at its finest.
 
useless article

this follows the template of taking a complex concept that seems obvious and boil it down to something simple to get everybody in agreement with the end goal to make something look far more out of control than it is.

For example:

1. Most military bases still in existence globally after the cold war are not there because they believe the russians will rebuilt and invade europe through the fulda gap but because it easier when it is time to strike to fly a plane or move a soldier from europe than from missouri. If that were the case eisenhower would have stage dday from fort bragg nc.

2. If the military knew what the next war or conflict was going to be and in what time frame than they could prepare, train, and fight in the most cost effective way possible. If the cops knew where the next crime was going to be they wouldn't waste the gas driving around all shift.

3. Why do those who argue against military waste assume the government is going to magically effectively deploy those dollars somewhere else?

4. "for the cost of one american soldier you could build 20 schools" that perhaps is most idiotic logic one can use. The only reason you can build one school is because our military is over there. You can't do b unless you do a first. It is not either drop a bomb or build a school. Of course any soldier would rather build a school than get shot at.

American journalism at its finest.

iawtp.
 
I respectfully disagree and its obvious from your post that you didn't read the article very well. I would put a full blown responce to you but its a waste of time.
 
I respectfully disagree and its obvious from your post that you didn't read the article very well. I would put a full blown responce to you but its a waste of time.

The thing about your opinion, and what you believe people say, even though you probably don't fully have a grasp on reading comprehension.

It's wrong.
Sorry.

I don't like defense spending, but it does make sense to have bases in other countries. To spend money on advanced technology, so real life soldiers don't die. And to show such brawn, in and of its self lowers the likelyhood of having to use said brawn.
 
The thing about your opinion, and what you believe people say, even though you probably don't fully have a grasp on reading comprehension.

It's wrong.
Sorry.

I don't like defense spending, but it does make sense to have bases in other countries. To spend money on advanced technology, so real life soldiers don't die. And to show such brawn, in and of its self lowers the likelyhood of having to use said brawn.

We have no need to be in South Korea or even Germany right now. Sorry, we need to stop being the world's police force. If North and South Korea want to go to war then so be it. Close down these bases and take a stance of isolationist. New technologies involving war can and are built in the United States. Defense spending needs to take a cut in many areas.
 
The thing about your opinion, and what you believe people say, even though you probably don't fully have a grasp on reading comprehension.

It's wrong.
Sorry.

I don't like defense spending, but it does make sense to have bases in other countries. To spend money on advanced technology, so real life soldiers don't die. And to show such brawn, in and of its self lowers the likelyhood of having to use said brawn.

The articlle doesn't say remove ALL spending its just saying why be in nearly every country, seems much more likely that we could find SOME cuts from the Military and find better use for the money or not barrowing the money and reduce our new debt load. Your arguements seem to act like this is a slash/cut all spending or remove our military from all countries. The article isn't saying that it is just saying lets take a look at the military as well as other sections of our government to look for savings or better uses for that money.
 
We have no need to be in South Korea or even Germany right now. Sorry, we need to stop being the world's police force. If North and South Korea want to go to war then so be it. Close down these bases and take a stance of isolationist. New technologies involving war can and are built in the United States. Defense spending needs to take a cut in many areas.

South Korea is the exact place we need to be right now. If the **** hits the fan, we shouldn't be monitoring the **** from Hawaii. We should be all up in the ****.
 
Thank you GoJazz for the article.

At the outset of our independent nation, it was obvious we could not go to war with the whole world to force everybody to be "free".

So the founders spoke of "alliance with none, commerce with all" and sought to keep international corporate cartels, with their meddlesome lobbyists, out of this country. You know, those folks who wanted the colonies for their own little captive market, the British Far East Trading Co., who had such influence with King George they got him to do all sorts of offensive things to the lowly Colonists.

Now, in our supposed might and prosperity, those international corporate interests have their grubby paws on our ship of state, and are making us do all sorts of stupid and offensive things to folks all over the world.

Our founders feared starting just another corrupt government and sought to set up checks and balances in our system that would make it more difficult for anyone to get such influence and power over us.

We can't afford it anymore, and we should oppose foreign wars that are mostly for the interests of the corporate cartels, like the oil companies in Iraq and the oil pipeline builders in Afghanistan.

GoJazz, you are right that we could achieve most of what we as Americans need by using good diplomacy rather that with military force. However, if we just evaporate our world presence, other nations will take over using military force. However, with our current program, China is gaining more popularity in Afghanistan than we are. . . .anyway. . . .

We required Japan to stand down as a military power at the end of WWII, because of it's aggression. We thus eliminated the one nation China genuinely feared or respected. We overtly threw the Sun Yat Sen loyalists into the sewer, and so China went to the other side, to the communists. We were truely stupid, but it was the "New World Order" some of our corrupt power brokers wanted. . . . Our "ally" England in particular did not want a strong China to emerge, and figured it was necessary to keep those billion people in the dark ages for a while. . . .like Russia. . . . It has long been British foreign policy to effect divisions in other nations around the world and manipulate their actions on the world stage according to the precepts of Machiavelli.

So if we're gonna rely on diplomacy, we are gonna need a complete change of staff at the State Dept. . . . . . the present staff are hardly even American. . . . . as they are as a whole mesmerized with the British visions of the New World, and think they are smart for being so "sophisticated". We have become the leige peonage for elitists who care nothing for human liberty.
 
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