Thread for conceding you’ve been wrong about something.

[Gameface]

Lots of innocent people in prison too. Should we stop all incarceration?

We should incarcerate a lot less than we do, and we should incarcerate people for less time than we do.

 

[Eminence]

So, again, there are 4 main reasons to imprison someone who has been convicted of a crime - deterrence, protection, rehabilitation, and punishment. In this case, it's obviously not a deterrent - I don't think people are not becoming mass-murdering cultists because they look at the Manson Family and say, "Wow, I don't want to go to prison." I don't feel like she, at 73 years old, is a danger herself, although there is a slim possibility that she could inspire a cult of her own. She has met any reasonable definition of being rehabilitated - she's earned a bachelor's and master's degrees while incarcerated, and has generally made the right noises about guilt and such. So, punishment... Is that in and of itself enough reason to keep her in?

Sam Colt (with some help from a friend or two) made sure everyone in America can be a danger from the day they're born (not quite) til the day they die, unfortunately.

As a younger teen I was a bit of a meritocrat. Still some of those thoughts, but I'd like to think in general I've become a kinder individual who has a much broader idea of 'merit' than I did when young.

 

[LogGrad98]

So, again, there are 4 main reasons to imprison someone who has been convicted of a crime - deterrence, protection, rehabilitation, and punishment. In this case, it's obviously not a deterrent - I don't think people are not becoming mass-murdering cultists because they look at the Manson Family and say, "Wow, I don't want to go to prison." I don't feel like she, at 73 years old, is a danger herself, although there is a slim possibility that she could inspire a cult of her own. She has met any reasonable definition of being rehabilitated - she's earned a bachelor's and master's degrees while incarcerated, and has generally made the right noises about guilt and such. So, punishment... Is that in and of itself enough reason to keep her in?

You missed any reason tied to the victims. Do they deserve a say? Surviving family, friends, etc. What about a sense of justice for the victims. She gets to go free but Sharon is still dead.

 

[LogGrad98]

Also, the death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment. The cost for appeals and all that is more than to just imprison the person for life.

Yeah but to me we just need to streamline the process, reduce the money spent.

 

[gandalfe]

You missed any reason tied to the victims. Do they deserve a say? Surviving family, friends, etc. What about a sense of justice for the victims. She gets to go free but Sharon is still dead.

Actually, Van Houten had nothing to do with the Sharon Tate murder, she went the next night and murdered Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. They were born in 1925 and 1930 respectively, so there is a more than reasonable chance they would be dead now anyway.

 

[LogGrad98]

Actually, Van Houten had nothing to do with the Sharon Tate murder, she went the next night and murdered Leno and Rosemary LaBianca. They were born in 1925 and 1930 respectively, so there is a more than reasonable chance they would be dead now anyway.

I'm sorry, I guess that means their surviving family don't deserve justice. I mean as long as the iron I kill will die one day, well that makes it ok. We should just put them in jail as long as we think that person might have been alive anyway. That's a weird hair to split. You know what I mean.

 

[gandalfe]

I'm sorry, I guess that means their surviving family don't deserve justice. I mean as long as the iron I kill will die one day, well that makes it ok. We should just put them in jail as long as we think that person might have been alive anyway. That's a weird hair to split. You know what I mean.

But the fact is she didn't even kill who you thought she did. Doesn't it matter that we get it right?

 

[LogGrad98]

But the fact is she didn't even kill who you thought she did. Doesn't it matter that we get it right?

Any other straw men you care to throw out? Obviously Tate is the big name. If I were writing a dissertation I'd proof read. This is an Internet Forum where I'm posting (or was) from church during a boring meeting. I don't think this is the huge symbolic morality play you think it is. And you still sidestepped the question. You haven't addressed the issue of justice for the surviving family and friends. Does that matter at all?

 

[gandalfe]

Any other straw men you care to throw out? Obviously Tate is the big name. If I were writing a dissertation I'd proof read. This is an Internet Forum where I'm posting (or was) from church during a boring meeting. I don't think this is the huge symbolic morality play you think it is. And you still sidestepped the question. You haven't addressed the issue of justice for the surviving family and friends. Does that matter at all?

Will keeping her in prison for another 30 years bring their family member back? Will executing someone? You say justice, but what you're really talking about is revenge.

 

[LogGrad98]

Will keeping her in prison for another 30 years bring their family member back? Will executing someone? You say justice, but what you're really talking about is revenge.

Maybe. What's wrong with that? An eye for an eye is underrated imo.

And again you sidestepped talking about the victims families. Did you read the article I posted originally?

Sharon Tate's Sister Criticizes Leslie Van Houten's Prison Release

The sister of Sharon Tate criticized the prison release of Manson Family member Leslie Van Houten for the first time in a new interview.

www.google.com

Still begs the question about those left behind after crimes like this. I think it matters how they feel about it. They were the ones directly affected not us sitting here debating about ambiguous morality behind keyboards on a quiet Sunday afternoon.

 

[LogGrad98]

We should incarcerate a lot less than we do, and we should incarcerate people for less time than we do.

Agreed.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

We should incarcerate a lot less than we do, and we should incarcerate people for less time than we do.

And we should incarcerate some even longer.

 

[JazzGal]

Since I don't know as much as the parole board about her, I hesitate to say that she should or should not still be in prison. Families should (and do) get to speak at parole hearings, but their feelings should not be the final word. Most of them are not satisfied with anything less than the maximum. Revenge should not be the reason a person is put or stays in prison.

 

[Douchebag K]

Agreed.

there's the issue of those that most likely can't be rehabilitated. The psychopaths, sociopaths who just don't care about what they do or their victims plight and truly have no remorse. Should this factor into incarceration / executions etc ??