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Time for a true gutting of the team this offseason.

Handlogten's Heros said:
Yes but part of the reason we operated that way was because we wanted to retain Exum... we planned on matching anything which means keeping the caphold.

If we had been willing to risk losing them then maybe you can get in some conversations. If you are willing to risk those guys you could talk with other free agents... get a commitment then waive those guys... if they get poached in the meantime oh well. His caphold along with those items were the issues... but we could have cut all of Udoh, Thabo, and Jonas... and left the holds on the book while we discussed FA.

Favs didn’t sign at midnight... no illegal nonsense needed... we could have talked with other dudes but Exum/Favs were prioritized. Their capholds/presence meant we didn’t have space but we coulda cleared it.
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All signs say that Exum was not the priority. Continuity was the priority.

Thabo's team option deadline was the first day of free agency (July 1). On that same day, we met with Favors as soon as we could and made him an offer as soon as we could. Well, we picked up Thabo's option before we even confirmed Favors was going to accept our offer and before we even met with Exum. Thabo's deal took $5+ of the potential $20 million we could have freed up. Not long after, Favors was signed for $16.9.

So before we could even match on anything Exum related OR offer him a deal, we had all of our space allocated to Favors ($16.9) and Thabo ($5+). If we really were going to try to sign other people, we would have renounced Thabo on the first day. We didn't, which says we were going in the direction of just keeping everybody.

And who knows, if Favors would have gone somewhere else, it's not even a certainty that Exum would have been retained. Even with Thabo, we would have had $15 million in space. If Favors had declined our offer, it's conceivable that we just let Exum walk. You never know.
 
Tony Jones did a Q and A on 'The Athletic' website about a month ago . One of the questions was what players currently on the roster does the Jazz front office see as complimentary pieces to Rudy and Donovan in the future? This was his response:

"Ingles for sure. O'Neale for sure. I think the big wildcard is Exum. I think they want him to be healthy for these next three months and give them a healthy sample size."

So it sounds like the only two guy's they for sure want to keep besides Rudy and Donovan are Ingles and O'Neale. They still believe in Exum but need to see if he can ever stay healthy and how good he can actually be when healthy. Everyone else is expendable.
 
LoPo said:
All signs say that Exum was not the priority. Continuity was the priority.

Thabo's team option deadline was the first day of free agency (July 1). On that same day, we met with Favors as soon as we could and made him an offer as soon as we could. Well, we picked up Thabo's option before we even confirmed Favors was going to accept our offer and before we even met with Exum. Thabo's deal took $5+ of the potential $20 million we could have freed up. Not long after, Favors was signed for $16.9.

So before we could even match on anything Exum related OR offer him a deal, we had all of our space allocated to Favors ($16.9) and Thabo ($5+). If we really were going to try to sign other people, we would have renounced Thabo on the first day. We didn't, which says we were going in the direction of just keeping everybody.

And who knows, if Favors would have gone somewhere else, it's not even a certainty that Exum would have been retained. Even with Thabo, we would have had $15 million in space. If Favors had declined our offer, it's conceivable that we just let Exum walk. You never know.
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We could have asked Thabo to push his date or just waived the guy... he wasn't getting $5M on the open market. He would have given us a few days... it happens quite frequently.

We didn't look to do it because the path was a bit tricky... but part of that evaluation was certainly retaining him and Favs... so to my first point... his caphold prevented us (in part) from kicking tires in free agency.

The opportunity cost on Exum has been really high... all I was really trying to point out is we have re-invested on the guy a few times... each time the gamble gets more expensive and has less upside imo. Failing fast has value.
 
Jingled said:
Tony Jones did a Q and A on 'The Athletic' website about a month ago . One of the questions was what players currently on the roster does the Jazz front office see as complimentary pieces to Rudy and Donovan in the future? This was his response:

"Ingles for sure. O'Neale for sure. I think the big wildcard is Exum. I think they want him to be healthy for these next three months and give them a healthy sample size."

So it sounds like the only two guy's they for sure want to keep besides Rudy and Donovan are Ingles and O'Neale. They still believe in Exum but need to see if he can ever stay healthy and how good he can actually be when healthy. Everyone else is expendable.
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I agree with that assessment 100%. Mitchell, Gobert, Ingles, O'Neale and maybe Exum. I'd probably add in Crowder too, but I can understand how he isn't in the same category as the other two.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We could have asked Thabo to push his date or just waived the guy... he wasn't getting $5M on the open market. He would have given us a few days... it happens quite frequently.

We didn't look to do it because the path was a bit tricky... but part of that evaluation was certainly retaining him and Favs... so to my first point... his caphold prevented us (in part) from kicking tires in free agency.

The opportunity cost on Exum has been really high... all I was really trying to point out is we have re-invested on the guy a few times... each time the gamble gets more expensive and has less upside imo. Failing fast has value.
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If we truly had an agenda to pursue big free agents, we wouldn't have picked up the team option on Thabo on the first day of the moratorium period. So in my opinion, the entire goal of summer 2018 was to keep everything intact. Considering we picked up Thabo's option and offered Favors a deal on Day 1 of the moratorium, Exum's caphold was not holding anything up. We had already verbally or used an option which offered all of our cap space.

So back to my original point - Exum's caphold has not held us from anything else. We paid him $9.6 which was more than we could pay any free agent last year (after keeping Thabo and signing Favors).

The only thing about Exum now is - is he part of the future here or is he expendable? If he's expendable, is there a market for him or are we just stuck with his contract? If he's expendable and we can't move him, then I start getting pissed at Exum like everybody else. For the rest of this season though, I think it's incorrect to bash him for getting in the way of 2018 free agent pursuits.
 
LoPo said:
If we truly had an agenda to pursue big free agents, we wouldn't have picked up the team option on Thabo on the first day of the moratorium period. So in my opinion, the entire goal of summer 2018 was to keep everything intact. Considering we picked up Thabo's option and offered Favors a deal on Day 1 of the moratorium, Exum's caphold was not holding anything up. We had already verbally or used an option which offered all of our cap space.

So back to my original point - Exum's caphold has not held us from anything else. We paid him $9.6 which was more than we could pay any free agent last year (after keeping Thabo and signing Favors).

The only thing about Exum now is - is he part of the future here or is he expendable? If he's expendable, is there a market for him or are we just stuck with his contract? If he's expendable and we can't move him, then I start getting pissed at Exum like everybody else. For the rest of this season though, I think it's incorrect to bash him for getting in the way of 2018 free agent pursuits.
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I believe we had to waive Thabo by July 1st. We didn't pick up an option... he was non-guaranteed.

Exum's deal was close enough to the MLE that we could have spent that much for a player, but if we did that plus the Exum and Favs deal plus picking up Thabo's option now you are in the tax.

Cap or otherwise... Dante has been a pricey investment and according to Tony Jones we are still trying to get a healthy sample size of WTF he is.

I didn't bash him, but his deal (caphold) was a factor in our FA consideration. Favs was likely a bigger factor but with him it was more justified as he is a quality NBA player.
 
Seeing what mike Conley has done since the all star break makes me a little sad we didn’t complete that deal... even though I think dm’s Best position long term is pg.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Seeing what mike Conley has done since the all star break makes me a little sad we didn’t complete that deal... even though I think dm’s Best position long term is pg.
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Otto Porter is absolutely killing it since the deadline as well. Both players are big missed opportunities.
 
jom2003 said:
And getting Conley would've cost us Favors.
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Maybe... they apparently wanted Exum... so Exum and Rubio plus draft stuff for Conley works.

Long term it may be good we missed on that deal, but right now it would make us so much better.
 
A move for Conley would have been a short term move that still wouldn't have put us over the Golden State or Houston hump. It would have been a move to put us into maybe the 2nd round the next couple years. He's an injury prone guy who makes so much that another injury sacrifices so much other potential. His contract is staggering it's so massive.

The Porter trade still makes me scratch my head, but I guess Washington really, really like Portis.
 
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