Tobias Harris wants to come to utah

[NUMBERICA]

Agreed - Jazz won a few games last season in the second quarter when Favors would come in and just dominate the opposing team's back up center.

Forget about the fact that he can't hit 3's or defend the perimeter well - you can't have your second highest paid player playing 20mpg in the playoffs - it's just an exposure you can't afford against top shelf teams.

Are you talking about Favors or Harris? Favors typically gets played off the floor even more than usual against elite teams.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No one on jazz fans really talked about wanting to acquire him.
For instance, I saw WAY more posts about getting jrue holiday than I ever did about Conley. Way way way more.
More about Dennis Schroeder. Hell even more about that dude for Detroit (Reggie Jackson I think). And more about collison too.
Just not many people on jazzfanz were ever posting about wanting Conley.

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Probably cuz we didn't think he was on the block.

 

[candrew]

Are you talking about Favors or Harris? Favors typically gets played off the floor even more than usual against elite teams.

Favors

 

[SCS]

If you want to maximize Mitchell’s, Gobert’s, and Conley’s ability to attack the rim, Harris makes the Jazz starting unit unstoppable. Having a 3pt threat at the four is Warrior territory offense because he cannot be left alone on the arc.

The trade off is that we lose Favors’ pick-n-roll minutes in the second unit. The only legit backup that we retain is O’Neale, and we have to hope that we can sign a useful vet or two for the minimum.

If Harris really wants to come here, I say do it. Snyder can stagger Conley and Mitchell, and our starting/ending units would be killer.

Neither Harris nor Favors maximize the salary that they will be paid, but it is probably better err on the side of a really good complementary starting five.

Just popping in to say that IF you can get Harris, but it requires letting Favors go, this is an absolute no brainer. You do this. Favors is a center, and paying what we're paying him for a primarily back up center is too much, particularly when there are any number of replacement level options available. He and Gobert together work, sort of. The defensive rating is good, but the offensive rating is not. The offensive rating, and net rating, with Crowder on the floor, for example, was significantly higher than the net rating with Gobert and Favors on the floor. Now, net rating with Favors on floor, but no Gobert, is better, but in order to maximize what we can get from Favors, then, this would require that he play primarily as a backup center, or otherwise when Gobert is resting. We are paying him too much for this role, and he's much more talented to be relegated to this type of role. It's better for Jazz and for Favors IF we moved him, assuming we can get someone of Harris' caliber in exchange.

Some really good points here

 

[SCS]

One scenario that I don't think has been discussed very much is let's say Tobias decides to go elsewhere and the Jazz don't really like any other option they see more than what we have. They keep Exum, keep Favors, fill out the roster. See how the team performs with the addition of Conley. And then at the deadline we could be players to trade Favors/Exum for a Max type player who may be disgruntled in his situation.

 

[sgjazzfan]

One scenario that I don't think has been discussed very much is let's say Tobias decides to go elsewhere and the Jazz don't really like any other option they see more than what we have. They keep Exum, keep Favors, fill out the roster. See how the team performs with the addition of Conley. And then at the deadline we could be players to trade Favors/Exum for a Max type player who may be disgruntled in his situation.

I've always thought that was one of the biggest reasons to keep Favors is to use his salary in a midseason trade. Plus I think him and Gobert works better with Conley than Rubio. I don't think Jazz can find a FA as good as Favors for the 16-17 million they could use if they cut him. They may find a 15-30 million dollar guy that is already under contract in a trade though (can include Niang, Bradley, Exum or a few others to make salaries work).

 

[Jack Strop]

One scenario that I don't think has been discussed very much is let's say Tobias decides to go elsewhere and the Jazz don't really like any other option they see more than what we have. They keep Exum, keep Favors, fill out the roster. See how the team performs with the addition of Conley. And then at the deadline we could be players to trade Favors/Exum for a Max type player who may be disgruntled in his situation.

I think I've brought this up before. I agree with you. There's no reason to dump Favors or Exum unless/until a better player agrees to a contract. Jazz have plenty of time before picking up Favors' option to talk to all their options. When Hayward decided, it was July 4th - and that was very late in free agency. Most guys will decide within the first few days after June 30th. No decent free agents want to be caught without teams when cap has evaporated. I really think it's Harris or bust here. If nobody better wants to sign, then Utah has a great expiring to offer at the deadline, maybe a decent Exum, and some lower level contracts . Maybe even one of the draft picks will have value as a trade chip.

 

[SCS]

The only possible issue with trying to trade Favors/Exum for another max type guy at the deadline is that we don't really have any picks/young players to add to a trade. The team we're trading with would have to be fine with Favors/Exum.

Maybe it wouldn't even be a deal for a max guy though. Maybe it would just be dealing Favors/Exum for pieces the FO thinks are a better fit after evaluating how Conley and our other FA additions effect the roster.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Here's a scenario I haven't considered, could Jazz offer a RFA with the salary cap they have, and hold off the Conley trade until after the other team decides whether or not to match? Say they offer Portis 10 million a year (no idea what kind of number he'll actually get). They don't need to cut Favors because they still have cap space. Should Washington elect to not match, then Jazz cut Favors so they can make the Conley trade work? Essentially they are offering a RFA without having to cut Favors until after the team decides whether or not to match.

 

[One Brow]

Forget about the fact that he can't hit 3's or defend the perimeter well - you can't have your second highest paid player playing 20mpg in the playoffs - it's just an exposure you can't afford against top shelf teams.

Favors defends the perimeter very well for person his size. Well enough, for example, to disrupt Chris Paul's mid-range shots when Favors is switched onto him.

 

[Jack Strop]

Hadn't considered that sgjazzfan. Good point. But wouldn't the clock start ticking to match a RFA only on July 6th, once the new NBA year begins? So Memphis would have to be convinced to wait a couple of days for the trade to go through. Not sure the Grizzlies would be that magnanimous without adding another pick to the trade. Then you may have had to burn an additional asset on just hoping a team won't match a deal.

 

[gregbroncs]

Just popping in to say that IF you can get Harris, but it requires letting Favors go, this is an absolute no brainer. You do this. Favors is a center, and paying what we're paying him for a primarily back up center is too much, particularly when there are any number of replacement level options available. He and Gobert together work, sort of. The defensive rating is good, but the offensive rating is not. The offensive rating, and net rating, with Crowder on the floor, for example, was significantly higher than the net rating with Gobert and Favors on the floor. Now, net rating with Favors on floor, but no Gobert, is better, but in order to maximize what we can get from Favors, then, this would require that he play primarily as a backup center, or otherwise when Gobert is resting. We are paying him too much for this role, and he's much more talented to be relegated to this type of role. It's better for Jazz and for Favors IF we moved him, assuming we can get someone of Harris' caliber in exchange.

Almost all of Favors' minutes with Gobert the last 2 seasons have been with a PG that can't shoot. Crowder got to play without Rubio a lot.

 

[fishonjazz]

I was not down with Big Al or Rubio, for the record.

I was right.

I didn't want Rubio but enough people hyped him to get me to eventually start drinking the koolaid. Then I soured pretty quickly again after watching him play a bit for us

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[dong2ha]

One scenario that I don't think has been discussed very much is let's say Tobias decides to go elsewhere and the Jazz don't really like any other option they see more than what we have. They keep Exum, keep Favors, fill out the roster. See how the team performs with the addition of Conley. And then at the deadline we could be players to trade Favors/Exum for a Max type player who may be disgruntled in his situation.

This is probably more likely scenario I think


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[infection]

I didn't want Rubio but enough people hyped him to get me to eventually start drinking the koolaid. Then I soured pretty quickly again after watching him play a bit for us

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I wasn’t a fan of getting Rubio at all. Same reason I didn’t like Rondo. A point guard needs to be able to distribute and shoot. If you look at the history of our point guards dating back to the early 90s, those who were successful could shoot. Those who couldn’t weren’t, regardless of whether or not they were talented (mark Jackson, Breton Knight). Anyway, Conley fits the mold perfectly. Wasn’t huge on Big Al, either, but was open to it. Nobody ever really believes in addition by subtraction, though, when it gets down to it, and I just wanted Boozer gone and Millsap in. Everybody kept wanting to give AK more chances, and he’s another guy that we’d be better without him in the DWill era (contract issues aside), but people kept making these irrational arguments for AK and Boozer. I feel the same about Exum and Favors, with the exception that Favors isn’t a huge douche like the other two. No opinions on Exum personally, so I’m fairly neutral in that regard.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here's a scenario I haven't considered, could Jazz offer a RFA with the salary cap they have, and hold off the Conley trade until after the other team decides whether or not to match? Say they offer Portis 10 million a year (no idea what kind of number he'll actually get). They don't need to cut Favors because they still have cap space. Should Washington elect to not match, then Jazz cut Favors so they can make the Conley trade work? Essentially they are offering a RFA without having to cut Favors until after the team decides whether or not to match.

How’s that gonna work? Favs is guaranteed on July 6 which is when the moratorium ends... if you offer during the moratorium the 2 day clock doesn’t start until after the moratorium... timing doesn’t work.

 

[framer]

I think I've brought this up before. I agree with you. There's no reason to dump Favors or Exum unless/until a better player agrees to a contract. Jazz have plenty of time before picking up Favors' option to talk to all their options. When Hayward decided, it was July 4th - and that was very late in free agency. Most guys will decide within the first few days after June 30th. No decent free agents want to be caught without teams when cap has evaporated. I really think it's Harris or bust here. If nobody better wants to sign, then Utah has a great expiring to offer at the deadline, maybe a decent Exum, and some lower level contracts . Maybe even one of the draft picks will have value as a trade chip.

With Conley's abilities, Exum and Favors are only going to look better than they did last year. Each one is going to be more valuable as the season progresses, especially Favors on an expiring with bird rights. Expect Exum to get showcased. Hopefully the schedule is more balanced to allow this. Jazz kept the players with the highest upside on value.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think I've brought this up before. I agree with you. There's no reason to dump Favors or Exum unless/until a better player agrees to a contract. Jazz have plenty of time before picking up Favors' option to talk to all their options. When Hayward decided, it was July 4th - and that was very late in free agency. Most guys will decide within the first few days after June 30th. No decent free agents want to be caught without teams when cap has evaporated. I really think it's Harris or bust here. If nobody better wants to sign, then Utah has a great expiring to offer at the deadline, maybe a decent Exum, and some lower level contracts . Maybe even one of the draft picks will have value as a trade chip.

The players we sign with Favs cap number may very well be trade assets too... since you can break up the 17m into 2 or 3 guys it might help with cap logistics on a trade. Also you might talk a player into a one year deal with a team option which would have more future value.

I think the correct move is to sign some decent values and either trade or waive Favs... but I don’t think that is the direction we go.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Hadn't considered that sgjazzfan. Good point. But wouldn't the clock start ticking to match a RFA only on July 6th, once the new NBA year begins? So Memphis would have to be convinced to wait a couple of days for the trade to go through. Not sure the Grizzlies would be that magnanimous without adding another pick to the trade. Then you may have had to burn an additional asset on just hoping a team won't match a deal.

The Conley trade would have to be postponed by a few days to make it work