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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Handlogten's Heros said:
The thing I’m looking at now is a potential Tobias Harris deal now that we have all these spare parts. The Philly pick situation is a little murky… but I think they can give up some picks with other conditions satisfied type of language. Bev, Bogey, etc for Tobias and picks is the type of buy low get some stuff type of package I’d look for.
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Morey loves former Rockets players.

Bojan, Beverly, and Gay for Tobias?

The only thing is I don’t see Danny taking on a big contract for 2023+beyond
 
rocfan1 said:
I keep getting suck into the twitter chasing and supposed accurate reporting from all of these insiders (Which is why I'm on here posting on the 4th). How come no one knew that the Timberwolves were aggressively pursuing Gobert until after the fact? How come Woj had to break this, and no other insiders had any information? I saw one piece of reporting that Twolves had interest and were in conversations. We spent all this time talking about Hawks, Bulls and Raptors deals. Insiders writing articles, blog posts, podcasts and etc. talking about these teams. I even spent an hour searching Hawks, Bulls and Raptors fan forums for any information on THE pending deal that was coming. In the end, not one of these insiders knew anything. The Gobert trade shocked everyone and apparently Ainge and Zanik kept the Gobert negotiation under wraps.
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There were actually a few items here and there about TWolves interest. I didn't take them seriously tho.
 
rocfan1 said:
I keep getting suck into the twitter chasing and supposed accurate reporting from all of these insiders (Which is why I'm on here posting on the 4th). How come no one knew that the Timberwolves were aggressively pursuing Gobert until after the fact? How come Woj had to break this, and no other insiders had any information? I saw one piece of reporting that Twolves had interest and were in conversations. We spent all this time talking about Hawks, Bulls and Raptors deals. Insiders writing articles, blog posts, podcasts and etc. talking about these teams. I even spent an hour searching Hawks, Bulls and Raptors fan forums for any information on THE pending deal that was coming. In the end, not one of these insiders knew anything. The Gobert trade shocked everyone and apparently Ainge and Zanik kept the Gobert negotiation under wraps.
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FWIW: Tony Jones said on the Twitter spaces that Minnesota called on Rudy but Danny was adamant about Jaden McDaniels being included in the deal. It was reported leading up to the draft that the Wolves were interested in acquiring a veteran center and had inquired about Rudy. The Wolves didn’t want to include him and seemed like they shifted their attention to a potential Durant trade. The Nets told them they weren’t getting Durant if they didn’t include Edwards or KAT. So after that they moved quickly with more draft picks to close on a Rudy deal.
 
My2Cents said:
There were actually a few items here and there about TWolves interest. I didn't take them seriously tho.
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While putting together a potential package I thought for sure they’d try to include Russell’s salary instead of a lot of their depth and many of us were hoping for 2-3 picks let alone 4 essentially 5 with Kessler.
 
framer said:
Tobias Harris makes 40 million a year for the next two years. Bojan and Beverly are expiring and better players individually.
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And why the Hell are you trying to make the Sixers better when we own their pick. You are not a true Jazz fan, Embiid lover. . .
 
Just want to reiterate that if the Suns trade for KD, they'll be depending on two star players who are injury prone and will miss games for load management. They'll lose Ayton, Bridges and Johnson as quality starters who were on rookie-scale. They already lost Javale and will have very poor depth in the frontcourt. They'll be capped out. They won't have their draft picks. They'll be in the luxury tax when Booker's new extension kicks in, if not sooner, so they'll have very little flexibility. Their owner is already known for being cheap, as evidenced by not extending Ayton or Jalen Smith. He's nothing like the Warriors' owner. They might not win more regular season games than the Warriors, Clippers, Nuggets or Grizzlies and are not guaranteed to be a homecourt playoff team. If they lose in the 1st or 2nd round, the whole experiment could blow up.

The only reason Ainge would trade Mitchell for a package of PHX draft picks is because he thinks those picks are going to be very valuable. That's why their package could be as attractive as the Knicks. Ainge would be setting them up like he set up the Nets in the Pierce/KG trade.
 
framer said:
Tobias Harris makes 40 million a year for the next two years. Bojan and Beverly are expiring and better players individually.
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I think Harris is better than both guys but you do it to get the pick swaps in the even years and a 2029 1st. Likely could get Shake or Thybulle too. Then when Harris value is higher we can sell him off… it’s like what the Thunder did with CP and Horford.

I’d also settle for getting other firsts for those guys but not sure one is there for Bev… bogey could get you one for sure.
 
idiot said:
Yep. That's true.

But it's still a lot to pay for a position (center) that seemingly 80% of observers say is not worth paying big dollars to (save for Jokic and Embiid).
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What if he became as good and valuable as jokic and embiid. Dude is 23.
Jokic at 23 years old: 23 points per game on 51%/31%/82% shooting splits. 12 rebounds per game. 8.3 assists (what really sets him apart)
Embiid at 23 years old: 27 points per game on 48%/31%/77% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.
Ayton at 23 years old: 21 points per game (he had the least shot attempts per game by a significant amount) on 63%/37%/75% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.

Obviously Jokic is by far the best passer. Embiid is the highest scorer (though it takes him 20 shots per game and a bunch of free throws, which isn't a bad thing, to get there). But Ayton is the most efficient scorer. Defensively I would think he could be just as good or better than both (great length and athleticism). He was winning a lot more games than both at that age (or any age really) Statistically he isn't much worse than those two dudes at the same age right?
 
fishonjazz said:
What if he became as good and valuable as jokic and embiid. Dude is 23.
Jokic at 23 years old: 23 points per game on 51%/31%/82% shooting splits. 12 rebounds per game. 8.3 assists (what really sets him apart)
Embiid at 23 years old: 27 points per game on 48%/31%/77% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.
Ayton at 23 years old: 21 points per game (he had the least shot attempts per game by a significant amount) on 63%/37%/75% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.

Obviously Jokic is by far the best passer. Embiid is the highest scorer (though it takes him 20 shots per game and a bunch of free throws, which isn't a bad thing, to get there). But Ayton is the most efficient scorer. Defensively I would think he could be just as good or better than both (great length and athleticism). He was winning a lot more games than both at that age (or any age really) Statistically he isn't much worse than those two dudes at the same age right?
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I wouldn’t mind Ayton at all
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Just want to reiterate that if the Suns trade for KD, they'll be depending on two star players who are injury prone and will miss games for load management. They'll lose Ayton, Bridges and Johnson as quality starters who were on rookie-scale. They already lost Javale and will have very poor depth in the frontcourt. They'll be capped out. They won't have their draft picks. They'll be in the luxury tax when Booker's new extension kicks in, if not sooner, so they'll have very little flexibility. Their owner is already known for being cheap, as evidenced by not extending Ayton or Jalen Smith. He's nothing like the Warriors' owner. They might not win more regular season games than the Warriors, Clippers, Nuggets or Grizzlies and are not guaranteed to be a homecourt playoff team. If they lose in the 1st or 2nd round, the whole experiment could blow up.

The only reason Ainge would trade Mitchell for a package of PHX draft picks is because he thinks those picks are going to be very valuable. That's why their package could be as attractive as the Knicks. Ainge would be setting them up like he set up the Nets in the Pierce/KG trade.
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The injuries are one thing… it’s the age of those guys… the 25/27/29 picks could be quite juicy. Say we did a 4 team we where we got all the Miami picks and swaps and just the Phoenix 27/29 but took the swaps ( because Brooklyn really can use them since they don’t have picks) it isn’t the worst package ever and allows us to fully rebuild… right now I’d say we are a late lotto team… say we got those picks and also swapped what would be the 12-17 pick for the 1-6 pick… that’s a good deal. Trading in Donovan now saves us from a ****** season where we talk about Don rumors all year and we make our picks so much better. Even if it isn’t the full godfather offer… it’s still good.

Herro, Strus, Bridges, Ayton?, Conley?, Phoenix 23 pick and 25 pick goes to Brooklyn.

We end up with Duncan, Jovic, 3 Miami picks, a couple miami pick swaps and 2 Phoenix picks… being like +10 in the pick column and still able to do some more with Bogey, JC, Beasley, Bev, TPEs.

Even if we are settling a little I’m cool. Those fliers on Minny/Heat/Phoenix picks mean you don’t have to do the super tank where you get rid of all good players for multiple years… you have enough capital to trade for guys later once you get some star talent with your own picks or can add it through the draft.
 
fishonjazz said:
What if he became as good and valuable as jokic and embiid. Dude is 23.
Jokic at 23 years old: 23 points per game on 51%/31%/82% shooting splits. 12 rebounds per game. 8.3 assists (what really sets him apart)
Embiid at 23 years old: 27 points per game on 48%/31%/77% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.
Ayton at 23 years old: 21 points per game (he had the least shot attempts per game by a significant amount) on 63%/37%/75% shooting splits. 13 rebounds per game.

Obviously Jokic is by far the best passer. Embiid is the highest scorer (though it takes him 20 shots per game and a bunch of free throws, which isn't a bad thing, to get there). But Ayton is the most efficient scorer. Defensively I would think he could be just as good or better than both (great length and athleticism). He was winning a lot more games than both at that age (or any age really) Statistically he isn't much worse than those two dudes at the same age right?
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I think I'm higher on Ayton than most here. Unlike most centers he has high value both offensively and defensively. He may eventually become a stretch threat to go with his inside game. He has great talent.

I'm just not sure I can quite see dominance for him. I think he's at best a number 2 player on a great team. But I have reservations about whether he'll ever make it that far because he just doesn't sound (from what I've admittedly only heard) like he'll have the motivation needed to get there. Expecting him to get to the Jokic/Embiid level is a huge and risky bet.
 
fwiw, I'm also not very confident that we could get him for the types of prices I've seen here discussed. Most of the non-Jazz-fans suggestions I've seen have him coming to Utah as a kind of replacement for Donovan in a three-team Nets-Suns-Jazz trade, not as someone we could snag while keeping Donovan. It's usually basically we get back Ayton and perhaps a bit of draft capital for providing the star needed (Donovan) to the Nets to get them to pull the trigger. I'm not terribly interested in that scenario.
 
idiot said:
fwiw, I'm also not very confident that we could get him for the types of prices I've seen here discussed. Most of the non-Jazz-fans suggestions I've seen have him coming to Utah as a kind of replacement for Donovan in a three-team Nets-Suns-Jazz trade, not as someone we could snag while keeping Donovan. It's usually basically we get back Ayton and perhaps a bit of draft capital for providing the star needed (Donovan) to the Nets to get them to pull the trigger. I'm not terribly interested in that scenario.
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idiot said:
I think I'm higher on Ayton than most here. Unlike most centers he has high value both offensively and defensively. He may eventually become a stretch threat to go with his inside game. He has great talent.

I'm just not sure I can quite see dominance for him. I think he's at best a number 2 player on a great team. But I have reservations about whether he'll ever make it that far because he just doesn't sound (from what I've admittedly only heard) like he'll have the motivation needed to get there. Expecting him to get to the Jokic/Embiid level is a huge and risky bet.
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Good posts.
Ya the worry is the motivation factor which is risky as hell. Its also what makes him available at all imo.
As for what it takes to get him I wouldn't do much more than a player (clarkson or bogey or conley or whatever) and 1 or 2 picks. So ya, if you are right that we would have to give up more than that then I wouldn't do it as much as I like him.
 
I think I am way far gone into the mindset of a rebuild and I'm having really hard time imagining good retool around Mitchell, especially one that will be so successful that he won't ask out next summer. I just feel like it will all be a waste of both resources and time. Oh well...
 
fishonjazz said:
Good posts.
Ya the worry is the motivation factor which is risky as hell. Its also what makes him available at all imo.
As for what it takes to get him I wouldn't do much more than a player (clarkson or bogey or conley or whatever) and 1 or 2 picks. So ya, if you are right that we would have to give up more than that then I wouldn't do it as much as I like him.
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It’s that and the fact that if he comes in and is roughly as good as he was last year… where does that put us? We go from bottom 10-12 team to maybe the 6 seed? That gonna impress Don enough to get an extension?


Teams are going to stop doing these all in unprotected pick packages because they generally end up looking bad years later… sometimes they look catastrophicly bad… nba teams forgot how sideways they can go.
 
stitches said:
I think I am way far gone into the mindset of a rebuild and I'm having really hard time imagining good retool around Mitchell, especially one that will be so successful that he won't ask out next summer. I just feel like it will all be a waste of both resources and time. Oh well...
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It’s the modern version of the Al Jefferson trade… we end up trading Don mid season and wasting a year. I’m all for a clean break here and go in one direction rather than splitting the baby. If we got him for the Philly pick… I guess whatever… he’s way more talented than Jefferson and we have Don for one more year than dwill… just feels like we give an asset we’d rather keep and end up making our pick worse… then you figure out what to do with Ayton too… if he struggles he won’t have great value.
 
stitches said:
I think I am way far gone into the mindset of a rebuild and I'm having really hard time imagining good retool around Mitchell, especially one that will be so successful that he won't ask out next summer. I just feel like it will all be a waste of both resources and time. Oh well...
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I don't think there is a re-tool scenario with Mitchell because he'll start to exercise leverage in free agency in two years and this won't give us much runway. This is a New Orleans situation. Move one star to get a haul. Bide your time. Move the other star and get another haul. Jazz will move Mitchell as soon as they get the offer they want.
 
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