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Trouble in Brazil

mellow said:
Franklin, I have a generally favorable impression of you, therefore I really hope I am missing a joke or the sarcasm here.
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You can look down your nose at me if you'd like to.

Education and affluence go hand in hand, and help people rise above the things that hurt our feel goods but don't really matter much. Helps with the pride and compromise part too. Don't know why that's so offensive, but whatever, go education rah rah.


And yes, I was being sarcastic about the bus fare. I have plenty of compassion for the poor in this world, especially in corrupt places like India where they live in squalor outside the walls of huge palaces. But Shriller threw a tizzy, so...
 
The Thriller said:
While millions live in favelas (ghettos. To have a taste of what that's like, watch the beginning of Hulk.) and struggle to make ends meet, billions are wasted in the construction of soccer stadiums and corrupt contractors who are "preparing" the country for the World Cup and Olympics.
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"cidade de dues"(city of god)
and "tropa elite" heck even modern warfare 2 the favellas are portrayed better then in hulk and fast five
 
franklin said:
You can look down your nose at me if you'd like to.

Education and affluence go hand in hand, and help people rise above the things that hurt our feel goods but don't really matter much. Helps with the pride and compromise part too. Don't know why that's so offensive, but whatever, go education rah rah.


And yes, I was being sarcastic about the bus fare. I have plenty of compassion for the poor in this world, especially in corrupt places like India where they live in squalor outside the walls of huge palaces. But Shriller threw a tizzy, so...
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So what was you point then? Having a little trouble trying to figure it out. Sounded like you just wanted to troll Thriller, but now you're saying poor people complain about petty things when they should focus on education?
 
dalamon said:
So what was you point then? Having a little trouble trying to figure it out. Sounded like you just wanted to troll Thriller, but now you're saying poor people complain about petty things when they should focus on education?
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Or focus on the real problems. But I see that as a problem that is not exclusive to the poor.
 
dalamon said:
So what was you point then? Having a little trouble trying to figure it out. Sounded like you just wanted to troll Thriller, but now you're saying poor people complain about petty things when they should focus on education?
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I was being sarcastic and then it went on a tangent. Bowing out now.
 
Like my avatar says, I'm from Brazil and I currently live here. I live in São Paulo, where yesterday had a huge protest, unfortunately I wasn't able to go, since my daughter was down witha a fever and I had to stay home in case she had to go to a hospital.

I wasn't there but I was watching on TV and it almost made me cry. Brazilians are known to be very "passive" and accept anything the government does. The problem here is that we pay the most expensive taxes in the world and the government doesn't give us much back in return. For the first time in 30 years, Brazilians are "fighting back" and trying to tell the government that we don't want to take it anymore.

this video explains it pretty well what's going on here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIBYEXLGdSg
 
Stoked said:
It took a petty problem to get them in the street didn't it?
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Oftentimes, it takes "petty" problems to people to get involved.

When you look at the context of history, just how important was the price of tea to folks living in Boston?

Ultimately, it wasn't (just) the cost of tea that they were protesting.

To be honest... Stoked and I even talked about this before. How much is that $300 million dollar aid to Syria ultimately? Meh, it's basically what the Yankees pay per game to their players. But it's the message being sent. Here we are, trillions in debt, economy still a mess, infrastructure falling apart, higher taxes, cut benefits, and yet we still are giving away money to other countries?

How much does a $.20 increase in public transportation hurt? Well... Actually... Come to think of it, more than you'd think. When I was there we'd see increases of half that every 6 months or year and it was surprisingly expensive...

But ultimately, Brazilians aren't merely protesting this increase in public transportation. It's a problem that is much much MUCH bigger. It's the message that is being sent from the government/ruling class/special interest groups. "Forget yourselves and your interests. We are going to build whatever we want." And the people standing up and saying, "Enough is enough! We've been content before. But not anymore!"
 
DutchJazzer said:
"cidade de dues"(city of god)
and "tropa elite" heck even modern warfare 2 the favellas are portrayed better then in hulk and fast five
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Cidade de deus.

I would recommend NOT watching that. It makes Schindler's List look like a comedy. I haven't watched the whole thing.
 
I endorse everything that "The Thriller" wrote above. That's what's going on here, people got tired and since the world press is here, we're telling our government and the rest of the world that we're not satisfied with spending 1 billion reais(brazilian currency) on a stadium and see public hospitals and public schools get worse and worse, we're tired to pay R$3,20 on a single bus fare while the minimum wage is only R$678,00, so if you take the bus to work everyday and gets paid the minimum wage, 20% of your salary goes to the bus!

Most of the people that are protesting are not the poorest in Brazil, on the contrary, yesterday, there were famous actors and actress, singers etc. Many cities already took the bus fares down a bit, but this is only the beggining, I hope!
 
thebrazilianzz said:
I endorse everything that "The Thriller" wrote above. That's what's going on here, people got tired and since the world press is here, we're telling our government and the rest of the world that we're not satisfied with spending 1 billion reais(brazilian currency) on a stadium and see public hospitals and public schools get worse and worse, we're tired to pay R$3,20 on a single bus fare while the minimum wage is only R$678,00, so if you take the bus to work everyday and gets paid the minimum wage, 20% of your salary goes to the bus!

Most of the people that are protesting are not the poorest in Brazil, on the contrary, yesterday, there were famous actors and actress, singers etc. Many cities already took the bus fares down a bit, but this is only the beggining, I hope!
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I have read that many subway operators, policemen, and media members are involved.

The question I have is... What now?

People are talking about impeaching the President, Dilma.

It's much like what happens here when we get mad at our government. Impeach Obama/Bush/Clinton? ok... But that doesn't change how the government is ran.

I'm thinking that a good start in Brazil would be to install a heavy ethics/anti-lobbyist reform in their government.

They need to move towards public works... But I have no idea how they will finance this. Maybe a more progressive tax system? Their capital gains tax is even more regressive than ours... Which is hard to believe...
 
The Thriller said:
Oftentimes, it takes "petty" problems to people to get involved.

When you look at the context of history, just how important was the price of tea to folks living in Boston?

Ultimately, it wasn't (just) the cost of tea that they were protesting.

To be honest... Stoked and I even talked about this before. How much is that $300 million dollar aid to Syria ultimately? Meh, it's basically what the Yankees pay per game to their players. But it's the message being sent. Here we are, trillions in debt, economy still a mess, infrastructure falling apart, higher taxes, cut benefits, and yet we still are giving away money to other countries?

How much does a $.20 increase in public transportation hurt? Well... Actually... Come to think of it, more than you'd think. When I was there we'd see increases of half that every 6 months or year and it was surprisingly expensive...

But ultimately, Brazilians aren't merely protesting this increase in public transportation. It's a problem that is much much MUCH bigger. It's the message that is being sent from the government/ruling class/special interest groups. "Forget yourselves and your interests. We are going to build whatever we want." And the people standing up and saying, "Enough is enough! We've been content before. But not anymore!"
Click to expand...

On foreign aid I am right there with you. I say immediately suspend it all and review it line by line for worthiness of the aid in the first place then for accountability of the program itself.

If it does not meet both then cancel it.
 
The Thriller said:
Oftentimes, it takes "petty" problems to people to get involved.

When you look at the context of history, just how important was the price of tea to folks living in Boston?

Ultimately, it wasn't (just) the cost of tea that they were protesting.

To be honest... Stoked and I even talked about this before. How much is that $300 million dollar aid to Syria ultimately? Meh, it's basically what the Yankees pay per game to their players. But it's the message being sent. Here we are, trillions in debt, economy still a mess, infrastructure falling apart, higher taxes, cut benefits, and yet we still are giving away money to other countries?

How much does a $.20 increase in public transportation hurt? Well... Actually... Come to think of it, more than you'd think. When I was there we'd see increases of half that every 6 months or year and it was surprisingly expensive...

But ultimately, Brazilians aren't merely protesting this increase in public transportation. It's a problem that is much much MUCH bigger. It's the message that is being sent from the government/ruling class/special interest groups. "Forget yourselves and your interests. We are going to build whatever we want." And the people standing up and saying, "Enough is enough! We've been content before. But not anymore!"
Click to expand...


also a 20 cent increase is much more than you think.
for ecample a 20 cent hike i would feel here.
using public transportation 2-4 times a day 5-6 days a week those 20 cents count up
 
Stoked said:
On foreign aid I am right there with you. I say immediately suspend it all and review it line by line for worthiness of the aid in the first place then for accountability of the program itself.

If it does not meet both then cancel it.
Click to expand...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stoked again.
 
DutchJazzer said:
also a 20 cent increase is much more than you think.
for ecample a 20 cent hike i would feel here.
using public transportation 2-4 times a day 5-6 days a week those 20 cents count up
Click to expand...

I completely agree w/you.

Reading all the Facebook posts in portuguese has reminded me a lot about life there in Brazil. I've been back a few times now. I think braziljazz put it perfectly when he broke down the min wage thing and the public transportation costs. I remember oftentimes people would take a few buses to get to work. It's not like $3.20 is a one way trip. Often times that's $3.20 here then another there... It adds up!

If you are commuting from Maua or Santo Andre (suburbs) you could end up taking 2-3 buses before you arrive in Sao Paulo.
 
Stoked said:
Relax, no one doubts your Canadian sensibilities.
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Look dude: this isn't me being left wing. Dismissing the protests of millions as trivial because they aren't fighting for 'real-problems' is something that is fundamentally wrong. I'd love to hear what a person living in the region, participating in the protests (Ahem: thebrazilianzz) would have to say about such a gross mischaracterization.
 
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